2012 Oscar Nominations

Discussion in 'TV & Media' started by Starbreaker, Jan 10, 2013.

  1. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^^^Then numerous people are wrong. A song, however much the singer emotes, is not a genuine character. Nor do their numbers make them plausible. If you and they are trying to say her song was the high point of the film, well, that's not the same thing at all.
     
  2. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    In a musical in recitative it is. That's the whole point. Her performance isn't just "I Dreamed A Dream", anyway (I thought "Lovely Ladies" and "Come to Me" are almost on the same level, anyway), and she does a superb job in mine and many others' opinion of conveying her character.
     
  3. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If the songs were the whole point, there wouldn't be any need for the recitative. It's true that the song can do heavy lifting in revealing character and evoking our emotion, but the dramatic interactions, in recitative or ordinary speech, are also character presenting.

    We don't know what her problem with the other women at the factory is; we don't understand her secrecy; we don't see any effort to find another job so what we see is an immediate descent into prostitution; really, we don't even know how such a woman the dialogue says she is could abandon her child to the grotesque Thenardiers! Nobody is stupid enough to trust those gargoyles.

    All these things are her character, but they don't add up. I read Les Miserables over forty years ago, so all I can go by is what's on screen. Maybe other people are using something else to fill in the gaps there.

    Absolutely true, and the failure of the rest is what diminishes the character to essentially one song...which isn't enough. (Incidentally, the problems with Fantine are in the script and the direction, not Hathaway. I can't see anything that Hathaway didn't at least try to turn into a genuinine human being.)

    The vampire hooker chorus does a smashing job of asking the question of why this woman doesn't go steal Cosette and either steal or beg. The ghoulish delight in degradation that powers "Lovely Ladies" gave me another take on the sincerity of the refrain "Hear the people sing!" I thought the song and its staging were awful. I suppose if you liked it then it might have added to your appreciation of Fantine, but I'm sure not seeing it.

    I still don't think she sang as well as a professional singer could have, and the performance would have been better. Nor do I think she successfully surmounted the script and staging problems. But it's quite true she managed to do a decent job of evoking pity, especially in the hair cutting scene I thought. But lots of actresses can evoke pity in such lurid scenes of degradation. It's a bad actress or writer who wrecks a death scene too. But...a prize winning performance better than every other supporting actress? Really? That's a stretch, even if it lese majeste to say so.
     
  4. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There's no required time one needs to be on screen to be deemed a supporting role. I could see why you would argue something like that about a leading role, though I'm sure such a requirement doesn't officially exist, but not about the supporting rorle.

    Speaking of which, the Academy has often made very arbitrary decisions who to nominate for Leading Role and who for Supporting Role, often based on whether someone is a big star at the time or not. Some of the silliest examples: Kevin Spacey playing a "supporting role" (?!) in Usual Suspects; Emma Thompson and Kate Winslet, both leads in Sense and Sensibility, but one gets nominated for leading role and the other for supporting role (guess which one was which); Travolta being nominated for a "leading role" and Samuel L. Jackson for a "supporting role" in Pulp Fiction. Either they were both "leads" or they were both "supporting", since it was an ensamble movie and neither of the roles was bigger than the other.
     
  5. od0_ital

    od0_ital Admiral Admiral

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    ^

    I remember readin' that the Academy deemed Travolta the lead of the two because he had more screentime than Jackson. For all of Jackson's screentime, he was with Travolta, but Jackson isn't there for all of Travolta's.
     
  6. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Aren't the studios the ones who decide which category they are going to push for a nomination? If they think it's easier to get a nomination and win for supporting actor, they lobby the academy members for that nomination, even when the role is a lead? Sally Field's Mary Todd Lincoln is the female lead in Lincoln. But an older actress is going to have a harder time than a young one. So when the studio did those ads and mailings they push for supporting actress. Isn't this sort of thing pretty much what happens?
     
  7. CaptainCanada

    CaptainCanada Admiral Admiral

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    It's not the studio, the performer makes that call (the studio obviously has input, since they like to coordinate campaigns). Christoph Waltz switched abruptly from campaigning in lead to supporting this year (which worked out nicely for him), dropping in on his costars who'd been there the whole time.

    Sally Field is the most prominent actress in Lincoln, but she is not an "actress in a leading role". The First Lady is clearly a supporting character. There have been any number of performances that blur the line between the two categories and where placement is arbitrary (Anthony Hopkins was thought to be a supporting actor in The Silence of the Lambs, but he asserted that he wanted to be considered a lead). Helen Hunt would be a better instance of a lead actress positioning herself as supporting this year for strategic reasons.
     
  8. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I doubt anything will ever top the silliness of Jamie Fox's Supporting Actor nomination for Collateral. He was in all but one or two brief scenes!
     
  9. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

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    Foxx was second-billed, but he was at the very least the co-lead. Might you be thinking of COLLATERAL DAMAGE?
     
  10. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Uh, no. Look it up, Foxx was absolutely the lead, had rather more screen time than Cruise thanks to the opening sequence, and was still nominated for Supporting.
     
  11. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    I seem to recall that some actress (whose name escapes me) won Best Supporting Actress for one scene in Network.
     
  12. od0_ital

    od0_ital Admiral Admiral

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    ^

    Beatrice Straight.

    Ned Beatty was nominated for best supportin' actor for his role in Network, which amounted to two or three scenes, but he only had dialogue in one.
     
  13. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think nothing tops Kevin Spacey being considered an actor in a supporting role for Usual Suspects - because, if he's not the lead in that movie, who the heck is?!
     
  14. superdeluxe

    superdeluxe Captain Captain

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    Argo gaining serious mo with PGA win