‘Superman & Batman’ movie will follow ‘Man of Steel’

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by JoeZhang, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I'm honestly kind of surprised they haven't tried hiring different actors for the superhero and the alter ego. It would be especially easy with someone like Spider-Man, or even Batman. For SM his face is completely covered in the suit, so all you'd need to do is dub in the dialouge from the actor playing Peter Parker. Same goes for Batman, although for him you might need a little bit of makeup on the lower half of the suit actor's face if it isn't passably similar to the actor playing Bruce's.
     
  2. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    That's already happening. It's called using stunt doubles for all the costumed action scenes.

    But fans have come to expect an actor to play both the hero and the security identity for at least some time. It maintains the illusion somewhat when an actor does both roles.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The guy inside the Spider-Man suit is usually a double -- that goes back to the '70s TV series. I think the guy they used probably had mime training, since he was good at exaggerating his head movements and body language to convey expression despite the immobile mask. They do the same thing in Power Rangers today -- the people in the costumes are always doubles except when they take their helmets off, and even though they recast the on-camera stars every year, the suit performers often keep the same role year after year.

    In the Raimi movies, the Spidey masks had a framework built in that kept them in the shape of Tobey Maguire's head no matter which stunt or performance double wore them.

    Actors are busy people; when they're not on camera, they have to be getting their makeup and hair touched up, changing wardrobe, talking on the phone with their agents to line up new work, doing interviews, catching some precious moments of sleep or time with their families, etc. So if you don't actually see the actor's face -- even if they're just facing away from the camera or standing off in the distance, let alone if the character is wearing a full-face mask -- there's a good chance it's actually a stand-in.

    One exception is the Iron Man movies. The IM costume doesn't even exist in most of the shots; they have Robert Downey doing performance capture and they animate the suit on top of him. Although that's probably mainly for the scenes where the helmet opens or closes, the armor goes on or off, that sort of thing.

    But if you can see part of the face, as with Batman, then of course they're going to use the same actor. In that case you can still have a visible performance, plus there's continuity with the unmasked version of the character. The audience would have a harder time accepting it as the same person if they couldn't recognize the eyes and mouth.

    The only time the role is recast from secret identity to hero is when there's a physical transformation, like from Bixby's Banner to Ferrigno's Hulk, or from Billy Batson to Captain Marvel.
     
  4. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    At this point, only Batman and Spider-man continue with the old fashioned concept of needing a mask since their secret identities are so important for their characters. Nearly every live action movie superhero has a public identity or hasn't bothered to use a mask.

    The X-men movies never had the characters in masks, all of the Avengers have public identities, Fantastic Four are maskless. Blade just needs a cool pair of shades.

    Iron Man is the poster boy for superheroes with a public identity, he actually feeds off the attention.
     
  5. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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  6. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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  7. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well in the case of Batman and Spider-Man, I'd say the masks are as much for intimidating the bad guys as hiding the hero's identity.

    Especially in the case of Batman, whose fierce visage and pointed ears are the most important part of his look. Plus there's the whole vigilante thing and being wanted by the cops...
     
  8. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    I think the jury is out on whether Captain America is going to have a secret identity in the 21st Century. Once he gets acclimated to the modern world, he may want an ordinary life as Steve Rogers when he's not going into action as Captain America.

    Sure, SHIELD and the Avengers will know who he is and how to find him, but he's not going to running around in the star-spangled suit 24/7, so the mask could help him preserve a degree of anonymity when he's out shopping for groceries.
     
  9. Dr.H

    Dr.H Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    "You're a monster Zod, and I'm gonna stop you!"

    Great A lines from dialogue maestro David Goyer.


    Man, what if Affleck was secretly conspiring to take over director reigns from Snyder? I would laugh if Affleck became one of the chief and ghost creative forces on the film. That means that if Goyer wrote a bad, cornball line for Batman Affleck would decline to say it citing that Batman wouldn't say anything in the situation he's writing for him.

    With Affleck involved, I'm hoping for a better script.
     
  10. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah the dialogue could be a bit ham-handed at times, but I thought the grounded tone and strong performances did a lot to make up for that, and made the movie feel a lot smarter that it perhaps really was.
     
  11. Dr.H

    Dr.H Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Eh, I actually prefer the more serious and grounded approach over the light-hearted, old fashioned whoopdie doo! way of the Donner films. However, the writing just wasn't strong enough to execute this approach effectively IMHO. Not to mention Zack Snyder's signature imprints are splattered all over the film's second and third act. Warner Bros needs to get fresh creative blood rather then play it safe and use the same writer over again. Notice how Nolan dispensed of Goyer for the last two Bat-films and regulated him to just story conceptualization. Don't get me wrong: I have nothing against the guy but I think he works better in a collaborative unit rather then a single unit. I feel his strengths are ideas and plotting not so much writing singular screenplays all by his lonesome. Say what you will about Dark Knight( there are many detractors that prefer Begins over it) but I feel that it benefited from Goyer being in a more collaborative unit and with some new creative blood--it managed to be a film that exceeded expectations(well depending on who you ask).
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2013
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    For their time, the Donner films were a serious and grounded take on superheroes.
     
  13. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hasn't that ship sailed for the movie Captain America? He pretty much gained celebrity status from rescuing that chick and he was unmasked at the time, plus he had no secret identity in his original time and pretty much everyone knew who he was anyway.
     
  14. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    To be fair, there's really only one Donner flick, the first one. It was Richard Lester who camped things up in SUPERMAN II and SUPERMAN III. And I can't even remember who directed SUPERMAN IV.

    Better, perhaps, to describe that sequence as the Christopher Reeve films
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Not really. Yes, the waitress saw his face (which was a callback from her earlier, unfortunately deleted scene where she met him before), but there weren't any cameras around at the time. And yes, it's public knowledge that Steve Rogers was Captain America, but that doesn't mean people would recognize him in person. They might've seen old black-and-white photos, but connecting that to a guy standing in front of you in real life isn't a given.


    Well, I was referring to SI and the unfinished Donner version of SII. SIII definitely doesn't count as serious and grounded -- it's an unabashedly Silver-Age take on Superman, and one that actually works pretty darn well once you accept it on those terms.

    Superman IV was directed by Sidney J. Furie.
     
  16. Dr.H

    Dr.H Lieutenant Red Shirt

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  17. Aldo

    Aldo Admiral Admiral

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    I actually think Snyder's direction was pretty far removed from his usual style. A signature Snyder action sequence would have loads of slow motion. If you want an example of a signature Zach Snyder sequence I would say look no further than 'Sucker Punch' that film is unabashedly Snyder.
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^Yeah, but the signature here is that the action overwhelmed the story, at least in the third act. Snyder's work isn't generally characterized by restraint, and the sheer pointless excess of the destruction in Act 3 ruined the movie for me.
     
  19. Trevacious

    Trevacious Captain Captain

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    Yeah, I could stand to lose 10-15 minutes of demolition easily in exchange for scenes of Superman putting his powers to work helping in the aftermath with rescues, cleanup and rebuilding and really cementing relations with the people of Metropolis.

    Then you slow-dissolve to the desert and the spy satellite torpedoing into the ground. It was far too quick a tone-shift to go from Zod's neck snapping to, "I think he's hot."
     
  20. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    For me, it was not necessarily the level of destruction. This is the type of thing we see in the comics. It was meant to be horrifying and it was. What was missing though was some attempt on the part of Superman to prevent the destruction. So, when he saves the one family at the end, we are left thinking why is he saving them and not the thousands of people he just let die.
     

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