RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,062
Posts: 5,431,940
Members: 24,925
Currently online: 572
Newest member: dracopticon

TrekToday headlines

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Cracked’s New Sci-Fi Satire
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Beltran Introduces Shakespeare To Theater Group
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Burton To Be Honored at Facets Boo! Bash
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 30 2009, 07:42 AM   #61
Kestrel
Vice Admiral
 
Kestrel's Avatar
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: The Andorian sexes

Dimesdan wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
I would, provided we're operating from the most basic definition of "feminism" - a belief that men and women, though different, are and ought to be equal and that neither sex ought to be given more power or influence than the other on the basis of sex, that no sex is "naturally" dominant or "naturally" deserves power.
Yep that's what I mean
Curious. Would you allow for individuals in partnership to take a more dominant or submissive role in their relationship with each other, so long as this was not a coerced or forced state?

rahullak wrote: View Post
Oh I think I see a minor difference. In the first case, its about both sexes being equal, and in the second case its about elevating women's rights and privileges to that of men.
Sort of. Or to put it another way, egalitarianism is concerned with working to maintain equality for all people; feminism is specifically concerned with issues regarding women (although my understanding is that it's branched out somewhat). They aren't so much different as the one is more focused than the other.
__________________
"If Romeo had just masturbated a couple of times a week he would have saved both those nice families a heap of trouble."
Kestrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2009, 12:12 PM   #62
regemet
Lieutenant Commander
 
regemet's Avatar
 
Location: west yorkshire
Re: The Andorian sexes

I have been toying with the idea of a three gendered species where the is a Male a Placental Female and a Marsupial Female. In this species the Males information comes from the sperm. The Placental Females information comes from the Ova and the information from the Marsupial Female comes in the first milk. As for the childs development after fertalisation by the Male the Placential Female carries the embrio up to the 3rd month then she gives birth and passes yhe child to the Marsupial Female who puts the embryo now called a fetus into her pouch where it attatcces itself to one of her brests to suckell untill it is 15 months old and volentaraly leaves the pouch. When the child starts to suckel the milk at the start is the first milk and provides the 3rd gammate. All gammates from the Placental Female have an X 23rd Chromosome Male Gammates produce either an X Y or Z 23rd Gammate.Marsupial Females produce no gender information. I may laler give more specialized names to thne2 Female genders
regemet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2009, 03:57 PM   #63
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: The Andorian sexes

regemet wrote: View Post
I have been toying with the idea of a three gendered species
Leslie Fish's 1976 fanfic take on Andorians:
http://www.geocities.com/therinofandor/Fish.html
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2009, 07:52 PM   #64
captcalhoun
Admiral
 
Location: everywhere
Re: The Andorian sexes

regemet wrote: View Post
I have been toying with the idea of a three gendered species where the is a Male a Placental Female and a Marsupial Female. In this species the Males information comes from the sperm. The Placental Females information comes from the Ova and the information from the Marsupial Female comes in the first milk. As for the childs development after fertalisation by the Male the Placential Female carries the embrio up to the 3rd month then she gives birth and passes yhe child to the Marsupial Female who puts the embryo now called a fetus into her pouch where it attatcces itself to one of her brests to suckell untill it is 15 months old and volentaraly leaves the pouch. When the child starts to suckel the milk at the start is the first milk and provides the 3rd gammate. All gammates from the Placental Female have an X 23rd Chromosome Male Gammates produce either an X Y or Z 23rd Gammate.Marsupial Females produce no gender information. I may laler give more specialized names to thne2 Female genders
that just sounds stupid. sorry, but that seems biologically nuts.
captcalhoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2009, 08:29 PM   #65
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: The Andorian sexes

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
regemet wrote: View Post
I have been toying with the idea of a three gendered species where the is a Male a Placental Female and a Marsupial Female. In this species the Males information comes from the sperm. The Placental Females information comes from the Ova and the information from the Marsupial Female comes in the first milk. As for the childs development after fertalisation by the Male the Placential Female carries the embrio up to the 3rd month then she gives birth and passes yhe child to the Marsupial Female who puts the embryo now called a fetus into her pouch where it attatcces itself to one of her brests to suckell untill it is 15 months old and volentaraly leaves the pouch. When the child starts to suckel the milk at the start is the first milk and provides the 3rd gammate. All gammates from the Placental Female have an X 23rd Chromosome Male Gammates produce either an X Y or Z 23rd Gammate.Marsupial Females produce no gender information. I may laler give more specialized names to thne2 Female genders
that just sounds stupid. sorry, but that seems biologically nuts.
Because, what, evolution always yields the most common-sense, efficient forms?
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 30 2009, 11:30 PM   #66
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: The Andorian sexes

I really doubt that a third gamete could be added as late as the phase where the neonate enters the marsupial pouch. By then, development would've progressed quite far, relatively speaking. However, there's a lot more to biology than just genes. We're just starting to understand how important epigenetic factors are to development. The DNA is the basic programming code, but it's the epigenetic factors that determine how that code is presented, read, and expressed. For instance, DNA strands are surrounded by things called nucleosomes, which basically twist the DNA into a particular shape in order to expose some genes and conceal others. Not so much rewriting the program as resetting its options, turning different parts of it on or off so that it operates differently.

So maybe what a third, marsupial parent would contribute wouldn't be genetic coding per se, but an epigenetic mechanism that affected how the coding was expressed and moderated. So the way the neonate developed would be affected by the third parent even though its genetics came only from the first two.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2009, 07:31 AM   #67
captcalhoun
Admiral
 
Location: everywhere
Re: The Andorian sexes

Sci wrote: View Post
captcalhoun wrote: View Post
regemet wrote: View Post
I have been toying with the idea of a three gendered species where the is a Male a Placental Female and a Marsupial Female. In this species the Males information comes from the sperm. The Placental Females information comes from the Ova and the information from the Marsupial Female comes in the first milk. As for the childs development after fertalisation by the Male the Placential Female carries the embrio up to the 3rd month then she gives birth and passes yhe child to the Marsupial Female who puts the embryo now called a fetus into her pouch where it attatcces itself to one of her brests to suckell untill it is 15 months old and volentaraly leaves the pouch. When the child starts to suckel the milk at the start is the first milk and provides the 3rd gammate. All gammates from the Placental Female have an X 23rd Chromosome Male Gammates produce either an X Y or Z 23rd Gammate.Marsupial Females produce no gender information. I may laler give more specialized names to thne2 Female genders
that just sounds stupid. sorry, but that seems biologically nuts.
Because, what, evolution always yields the most common-sense, efficient forms?
well, obviously not since if it did we'd all be like amoebas and just split into two to reproduce.

but, come on, three parents where one 'gives birth' and then a second carries it for months and suckles it? GTFOOH, that's just ridiculous.

you wanna make a three gender species, make it so they combine their material at the intercourse stage.
captcalhoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2009, 09:00 AM   #68
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: The Andorian sexes

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
come on, three parents where one 'gives birth' and then a second carries it for months and suckles it? GTFOOH, that's just ridiculous.
I'm just thinking of cuckoos, who lay an egg in another bird's nest, even a tiny species, and the baby cuckoo hatches out, kicks the birds' own egg out of the nest, and is raised by the substitute parents.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2009, 02:47 PM   #69
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: The Andorian sexes

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
but, come on, three parents where one 'gives birth' and then a second carries it for months and suckles it? GTFOOH, that's just ridiculous.
Nature is full of all sorts of strange variants on reproduction. Read up on seahorses sometime.

Evolution doesn't have a fixed playbook. It's a process of adaptation to the needs of a species' environment and lifestyle. You can't rule out the possibility that there could be an environment that would create pressures for which a three-parent system would be adaptive. For instance, if a high birth rate is needed, then handing the job of suckling off to a third parent would mean the birthing parent would be able to get pregnant again sooner.

Also, the reason two-sex reproduction caught on is because it increases genetic diversity and adaptability. On our planet, two sexes is enough. On a different planet, with a more stressful environment, it's possible that two wouldn't be enough, that you'd need the additional diversity that comes from a larger number of sexes.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2009, 09:42 PM   #70
captcalhoun
Admiral
 
Location: everywhere
Re: The Andorian sexes

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
captcalhoun wrote: View Post
come on, three parents where one 'gives birth' and then a second carries it for months and suckles it? GTFOOH, that's just ridiculous.
I'm just thinking of cuckoos, who lay an egg in another bird's nest, even a tiny species, and the baby cuckoo hatches out, kicks the birds' own egg out of the nest, and is raised by the substitute parents.
c'mon though Therin, that's different and you know it. the cuckoo still gets knocked up and lays its egg in the conventional 2-gendered manner.
captcalhoun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 31 2009, 11:10 PM   #71
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: The Andorian sexes

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
captcalhoun wrote: View Post
come on, three parents where one 'gives birth' and then a second carries it for months and suckles it? GTFOOH, that's just ridiculous.
I'm just thinking of cuckoos, who lay an egg in another bird's nest, even a tiny species, and the baby cuckoo hatches out, kicks the birds' own egg out of the nest, and is raised by the substitute parents.
c'mon though Therin, that's different and you know it. the cuckoo still gets knocked up and lays its egg in the conventional 2-gendered manner.
But that manner is only "conventional" because that's the course life has taken on this planet.

On an alien world, with unknown conditions? There are all sorts of reproductive directions life could take.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1 2009, 01:48 PM   #72
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: The Andorian sexes

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
the cuckoo still gets knocked up and lays its egg in the conventional 2-gendered manner.
Sure, but you said that the situation of "a second carries it for months and suckles it" was ridiculous. Not so ridiculous or impossible.

Christopher
already beat me to the seahorse example, in which the male fertilizes the young, and the female passes the young into the male's pouch. There's also clownfish(?), which can change sex to even up the numbers in the school, and baby crocodiles, which hatch out either male or female depending on how deep the mother buries the eggs. Not to mention hermaphrodite pairs of snails, who fertilize each other's eggs.

With all that variety here on Earth I'm willing to cut as-yet-undiscovered species some slack and assume they might have more than two genders, no sexes.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/

Last edited by Therin of Andor; September 1 2009 at 02:18 PM. Reason: was gonna say "sexes" - ;)
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1 2009, 02:10 PM   #73
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: The Andorian sexes

^Or rather, more than two sexes. Sex is biological; gender is cultural or behavioral. They aren't the same thing. For instance, a transvestite is someone of, say, the male sex who adopts a female gender identity. There are human cultures with more than two genders, although they still have two biological sexes.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 1 2009, 02:58 PM   #74
Paris
Commodore
 
Paris's Avatar
 
Location: In the future's past
Re: The Andorian sexes

^Thanks for providing the link, Christopher. Very informative, very interesting.
__________________
"I don't use plot to serve continuity porn, I use continuity porn to serve plot." - Christopher L. Bennett July 2, 2013
Paris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:49 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.