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Old July 17 2009, 08:53 PM   #1
Silversmok3
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Starfleet Fighter Planes?

Ive wondered what the low down was on starfleet 'space fighters', ive seen them in DS9 Dominion episodes, but havent seen too much more info about them.

How many of these star trek 'vipers' do they operate, and do they only come in play when war is assured, do they operate on starship deployment style like we do with aircraft carriers, etc?

Inquiring minds want to know...
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Old July 17 2009, 09:04 PM   #2
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Re: Starfleet Fighter Planes?

I don't know.. but I like that Jellyfish from the new film. I wish we could see more stuff like that.
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Old July 17 2009, 10:36 PM   #3
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Re: Starfleet Fighter Planes?

Well, all I can do is speculate, but my impression was that they were strictly combat craft with little use outside of wartime.
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Old July 17 2009, 11:47 PM   #4
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Re: Starfleet Fighter Planes?

I guess the board is overdue for another I want Captian Kirk to fly fighters like Skywalker Starbuck versus fighters can't work in the Star Trek universe fight.

There are no fighters because they can't generate shield strength or firepower to do anything useful against a starship. Hornblower did not command a rowboat with a torpedo strapped to the bow.
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Old July 17 2009, 11:58 PM   #5
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Re: Starfleet Fighter Planes?

Star Wolf wrote: View Post
I guess the board is overdue for another I want Captian Kirk to fly fighters like Skywalker Starbuck versus fighters can't work in the Star Trek universe fight.

There are no fighters because they can't generate shield strength or firepower to do anything useful against a starship. Hornblower did not command a rowboat with a torpedo strapped to the bow.
If you want to go there, let's go further:

There's no point in showing ANY combat in Star Trek, because if they really had the tech they're supposed to have, it would all be fought at the speed that computers can control warp engines and weapon systems that are ALSO light-speed or faster. And don't say they wouldn't because humanity (or whomever) "insists on control of their own fate", or some crap like that. Wouldn't matter - the first enemy that decided to go computer controlled for their systems would WIN, or would force everyone else to do so in response to keep from getting their butts handed to them - every time - without having time to even know what just happened. And don't say that no race does that because it inevitably leads to computers turning on their owners and killing them, because A) we don't know that, and B) wouldn't matter - even if the computers did kill their creators, they themselves would still be out their as enemies, fighting at their full speed.
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Old July 18 2009, 02:35 AM   #6
Finngle Bells
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Re: Starfleet Fighter Planes?

This might be what the OP is thinking of

http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Peregrine_class
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Old July 18 2009, 03:30 AM   #7
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Re: Starfleet Fighter Planes?

USS_Triumphant wrote: View Post
Star Wolf wrote: View Post
I guess the board is overdue for another I want Captian Kirk to fly fighters like Skywalker Starbuck versus fighters can't work in the Star Trek universe fight.

There are no fighters because they can't generate shield strength or firepower to do anything useful against a starship. Hornblower did not command a rowboat with a torpedo strapped to the bow.
If you want to go there, let's go further:

There's no point in showing ANY combat in Star Trek, because if they really had the tech they're supposed to have, it would all be fought at the speed that computers can control warp engines and weapon systems that are ALSO light-speed or faster. And don't say they wouldn't because humanity (or whomever) "insists on control of their own fate", or some crap like that. Wouldn't matter - the first enemy that decided to go computer controlled for their systems would WIN, or would force everyone else to do so in response to keep from getting their butts handed to them - every time - without having time to even know what just happened. And don't say that no race does that because it inevitably leads to computers turning on their owners and killing them, because A) we don't know that, and B) wouldn't matter - even if the computers did kill their creators, they themselves would still be out their as enemies, fighting at their full speed.
Although from what I see, a lot of star ships are computer mostly controlled already. If you initiate a defensive pattern you just switch it on, tell it where you wanna end up, and it does the rest.
And no matter if all the calculations in the world were done at light speed, you're still restricted by the speed a torpedo can reload or a phaser bank can recharge. There's more to be said for human intuition when it comes to a fight, a computer can't judge which enemy captains are complete wimps and likely to back off just by talking to them, or bring reputation of a captain into the equation, the computer would base it's defense or attack purely on the armourment of the ship, when a captain with a lesser ship may be more skilled.

If the computers main job is to limit the loss of as many lives as possible then it's likely to run if the loss is too great, where as the situation might require a captain to stick around, take the losses but still win the fight, or visa versa. If the fight would save millions of lives on a planet just a few light years away, would it not make more sense to take one ship in and blow the core in the middle of the enemy fleet? How can you rely on the computer not to make that decision every time? How far should it quantify present and future danger and possibility of death into the current fight it's having?
You simply cannot put that much reliance on a computer system, even if it is a 24th Century one. There are some decisions that a computer connot make, even with all the evidence present.

And fair enough things like raising shields automatically if the computer detects phaser fire; but even with simple things like that, what if your in the middle of a transporter cycle? or theirs a shuttle just in the way at the wrong point?

Where the variables become more and more unpredictable the further into the furture you go, i would find it difficult to trust that system to come to an acceptable conclusion.

I don't believe that equations based on facts are a substitute for experience.

Although I think they should have more depth to space fights in trek.
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Old July 18 2009, 04:37 AM   #8
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Re: Starfleet Fighter Planes?

Anyone who thinks that combat can be controlled by computers has obviously forgotten about "The Ultimate Computer".
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Old July 18 2009, 08:40 AM   #9
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Re: Starfleet Fighter Planes?

As long as your computer isn't programmed based on the mind of a slightly deranged egomaniac on the verge of a nervous breakdown, it should work out just fine. Imagine if M5 had been imprinted with, say, Spock's memory engrams. Or better yet, DATA.
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Old July 18 2009, 12:53 PM   #10
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Re: Starfleet Fighter Planes?

Going back to the OP, we've only ever seen fighter type craft in DS9. The first references to such vehicles were that the terrorist/freedom fighter organisation the Marquis were arming smaller craft (such as the Peregrine class courier) as part of their campaign against the Cardassians.

Later, after the outbreak of the Dominion War, Star Fleet began using such craft too. I'd speculate they were rushed into service to counter the threat of the Dominion Attack Fighters, which by that stage had already destroyed the USS Odyssey in a kamikaze run.

Sadly there is little canon information on their capabilities or operating procedures.

It has been claimed that the Akira class ship is capable of carrying forty or so such fighters, but there has been nothing on screen to confirm or deny that.
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Old July 18 2009, 03:26 PM   #11
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Re: Starfleet Fighter Planes?

The Badger wrote: View Post
Going back to the OP, we've only ever seen fighter type craft in DS9. The first references to such vehicles were that the terrorist/freedom fighter organisation the Marquis were arming smaller craft (such as the Peregrine class courier) as part of their campaign against the Cardassians.

Later, after the outbreak of the Dominion War, Star Fleet began using such craft too. I'd speculate they were rushed into service to counter the threat of the Dominion Attack Fighters, which by that stage had already destroyed the USS Odyssey in a kamikaze run.

Sadly there is little canon information on their capabilities or operating procedures.

It has been claimed that the Akira class ship is capable of carrying forty or so such fighters, but there has been nothing on screen to confirm or deny that.
Just because it is small doesn't make it a fighter. Unlike fighter craft in our century a small shuttle can't outrun and fly rings around a starship no matter how much of a point it has on its nose.

The Maquis and the Bajorian Freedom Fighters have been in the terrorist mode. Their fighters in the star trek universe act more like the rubber boats of earth's current pirates then F-22s. Medium sized starships, the Birds of Prey and the Defiants took over the fighter role by rolling their wings when fighting on screen.
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Old July 18 2009, 04:02 PM   #12
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Re: Starfleet Fighter Planes?

Maybe, but those small craft were referred to on-screen as 'attack fighters'.
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Old July 18 2009, 07:23 PM   #13
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Re: Starfleet Fighter Planes?

Seeing as the first warp crafts were essentially planes (besides the "Phoenix" and I assume similar craft to test warp drive), I can imagine that early designs were fighter type crafts with jet engines and small warp nacelles. In deep space, a first line of defense squadron might also have been needed in some missions to protect the cruiser before photons, sensors, and shields were fully developed. Maybe just a handful of fighters in the hanger bay just in case, or as scouts flying ahead of the main ship, or planet recon. Although Trek history has changed, details of the first Romulan war depicted the use of nuclear weapons. Archers Enterprise just had hull plating... so I think fighters could have come into play. I could see starfeet "space craft carriers" with small fighters and other weapons platforms engaged against a Romulan threat.
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Old July 18 2009, 10:26 PM   #14
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Re: Starfleet Fighter Planes?

I think they're more like attack craft. Expend ordinance at enemy ships, get the hell out of dodge and hope you don't get shot down. I don't think they're fighters in the sense that they'd be dogfighting with the Dominion "fighters" which seem to be rather larger and more capable craft than the "Peregrine" anyways.
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Old July 19 2009, 04:14 AM   #15
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Re: Starfleet Fighter Planes?

Regardless, starships are to wet-navy forces as TV sets as a CIWS has with ancient Greek land war: similar terms, but completely different thing. Starships evolved from space craft, which in turn evolved from aircraft and missiles; they have NOTHING in common with naval vessels, so any starship of sufficient speed and agility could rightly be called a "fighter" or even "fighter/bomber." A fighter carrier in this environment is just plain silly, though the idea of "parasite craft" docked to the outside of the ship Suliban-style would work extremely well.

The term "attack fighters" in DS9 was unfortunate and ignorable; it was a shameless and ill-conceived attempt to be more like Babylon-5ish, since they were doing big giant battles for once and figured you can't have a big battle without fighters.
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