RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,579
Posts: 5,403,223
Members: 24,865
Currently online: 466
Newest member: shyrim

TrekToday headlines

October-November 2014 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Cho Selfie TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

TPTB To Shatner: Shhh!
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Mystery Mini Vinyl Figure Display Box
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

The Red Shirt Diaries Episode Five
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

Shatner In Trek 3? Well Maybe
By: T'Bonz on Sep 28

Retro Review: Shadows and Symbols
By: Michelle on Sep 27

Meyer: Revitalizing Star Trek
By: T'Bonz on Sep 26

Trek Costumes To Be Auctioned
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25

Hulu Snaps up Abrams-Produced Drama
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 16 2014, 06:08 AM   #1
Praxius
Captain
 
Praxius's Avatar
 
Location: Melbourne, AUS
Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

I did a search through the forums but didn't find this posted. My apologies if it has been already. For those who haven't read it before (like myself) enjoy:

http://www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-tre...s-hate-voyager

".... A lot changed between that and Voyager of course. The Next Generation eventually stopped trying to live up to Rodenberry’s utopia and allowed whole other worlds of conflict. Deep Space Nine would make its name actively challenging the concept in landmark episodes such as Homefront and In the Pale Moonlight. So when Voyager got flung into the Delta Quadrant it was now in a wild unknown where it was free to disregard the more restrictive elements of Rodenberry’s vision. Voyager was given every gift that the Star Trek universe had to offer and it mishandled every one of them....."

Read through and let me know you're thoughts as Voyager fans.

I have my own position, but I'll leave it out of the discussion for now so the topic doesn't get muddied right off the bat from the OP and you guys can focus more on what's mentioned in the above link.
Praxius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2014, 06:18 AM   #2
teacock
Admiral
 
Location: teacake
Re: Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

my god must we have another stupid hate thread? We already had one in general. Blech.

Anyway "star trek fans" is a very big brush. But if people want to hate VOY and ENT (which is the one that gets the most vitriol) whatever. My library of love is bigger than their library.

MY LIBRARY OF LOVE PEOPLE! Yeah.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2014, 06:42 AM   #3
Praxius
Captain
 
Praxius's Avatar
 
Location: Melbourne, AUS
Re: Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

Edited/Added:

I didn't start this to be a "Hate Voyager / Voyager Sucks" thread.

Instead, I was leaning towards not focusing so much on the show, but focus on those who don't like it so much. It's kind of one of those social experiment thingys. For me, I try to think of what's so different between Voyager and the previous seriesez'ez that causes this preference or lack there of.

I personally don't hate Voyager, it had some good concepts & good episodes.

I also can't say I hate Enterprise.

People will say they hate Voyager and others will say they think Enterprise sucks..... and at the same time you'll have TNG fans say DS9 sucks...... and TOS fans say TNG sucks. It's just the way it is. People like what they like.

As you said, Whatever.

But for me, I'm more interested in what the "Core Differences" between each series had which causes such division.

All of them had varying inconsistencies in certain areas or flaws, so we can ignore that here for the time being.

One can focus on each series and discuss "What happened in this series which caused fans of the previous series to not get interested?"

The link in the OP presents one person's opinion as to why he thinks Voyager didn't catch on with many "Trek Fans"

"Trek Fans" Basically meaning: Trek Fans of Star Trek up to this point where Voyager comes in.... TOS, TNG, DS9.

"Trek Fans" when discussing Enterprise = Fans of ST up to when Enterprise came out.... TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY.

Yes, it sucks to have a big brush slapping around branding and generalizing the fan base in over simplistic identifications, but in some cases, it gets the general point across.

Last edited by Praxius; September 16 2014 at 07:33 AM.
Praxius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2014, 06:54 AM   #4
fireproof78
Commander
 
Re: Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

First of all, this type of thread has come up before, but I applaud your willingness to address this again.

As with most of these types of topics, it is wrought with angst and opinions, resulting in misunderstanding of why people may hate a show. I point this out because my point is not to hype on any fan group or individuals, and to avoid arguments, and have an actual discussion.

That being said, I think the article articulates very well how I feel about Voyager, with a couple of exceptions. I don't "hate" Voyager, any more than I hate any other TV show or film, because that requires a level of emotional investment that I don't commit to that (I save it for important things like politics and people who talk in the theater ).

Voyager, in my opinion, was a mixed bag. It grew up in the shadow of older siblings and tried to be like them rather than moving in to new territory. SF Debris makes this point in one of his reviews that, for the most part, Voyager maintained the status quo, having the reset button, rarely referencing back to character development, following the TNG formula. In that way, I agree. The episodes that stand out in my mind are ones where a change happens, like "Message in a Bottle" when, at the end, the Federation is aware Voyager is still looking for them. It gives more punch to the thru-line of trying to get home. Someone is missing them.

On the other hand, Voyager often ignored consequences and did little to endear me to feeling like these characters are people to care about. Probably because character moments did not always lead to development throughout the series. It was only in the later parts of the show's run that it felt like they were characters and not caricatures.

There are some genuine fun bits in the show, but for me, it does not grab me like TOS, TNG did or how DS9 does for me now. Obviously, mileage will vary, but in the end, for me, VOY did not make good use of what it had.
fireproof78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2014, 07:16 AM   #5
teacock
Admiral
 
Location: teacake
Re: Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

Praxius wrote: View Post

Instead, I was leaning towards not focusing so much on the show, but focus on those who don't like it so much. It's kind of one of those social experiment thingys.
Can we put the ones who don't like it so much in a box and poke them with sticks?

I will take notes.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2014, 07:24 AM   #6
fireproof78
Commander
 
Re: Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

teacake wrote: View Post
Praxius wrote: View Post

Instead, I was leaning towards not focusing so much on the show, but focus on those who don't like it so much. It's kind of one of those social experiment thingys.
Can we put the ones who don't like it so much in a box and poke them with sticks?

I will take notes.
Stupid Skinner boxes. I thought I had passed that class
fireproof78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2014, 07:27 AM   #7
teacock
Admiral
 
Location: teacake
Re: Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

At the end of Voyager we discover it all took place in a Skinnner box created by aliens.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2014, 07:33 AM   #8
Praxius
Captain
 
Praxius's Avatar
 
Location: Melbourne, AUS
Re: Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

In regards to Voyager, I was really looking forward to it and was all hyped up to watch it when it first came out. When I first heard about it coming, Geneviève Bujold was planned to be the Captain. I watched all the way through the first season and most of the second season when it was aired. For some reason, it just wasn't grabbing me. In all the other series before, the first 1-2 seasons were always a bit of a challenge to get through as the main "Feel" of the show isn't really brought into focus until season 3+, as the first two seasons are more about character development and scene setting.

I stopped following the series on TV after that, but not because I didn't like the show, but because I was on my way out from my parent's house and into College..... which meant student loan budgets and thus, no cable TV..... thus no Voyager.

By the time I could get back into Voyager, I missed a few seasons and the show was wrapping up.

Over the last few years I took the time to go through the entire series and watch from start to finish.

One particular thing that I found was missing for me was something that sucked me into the previous shows. There was character development of many of the Voyager characters, but not all of them and this left a bit of a hole for me. Chakotay needed a bit more focus I thought. If they took a few of the Seven of Nine character development episodes out of the equation and put a couple more for him, I'd have a bit more of a collective connection to the crew. I would have also loved him to confront Janeway more often and stand up to his principles more than he did.... but that's a different story.

There were a number of episodes that focused on specific character's past history catching up to them or being focused on (Kim, B'elanna, Seven, Tuvok) yet other characters had little to no history being focused on.

Janeway pretty much had her relationship stuff mentioned at the start and when they finally could communicate with the Federation, but beyond that, it was almost always Work Work Work.

Tom Paris had tid bits of his past brought forward, but not really a lot overall.

And if there was anything mentioning background of a character, it was usually a 4 second passing reference.

For me, knowing where the characters came from helps me feel more connected with them..... In Voyager, the focus seemed more towards "what's going on now", rather than "who are these people we're watching?"

TOS, TNG and DS9 had a lot of focus on letting the viewer know who these people are, where they came from and why they are the way they are..... Voyager seems to have not leaned that way, which I felt there was plenty of opportunity to do this in the first season. Then by the time season 2 came along, I could relate and know what the characters were thinking before they even made a facial expression.

Again, this isn't trashing Voyager. It had everything going for it. There were some great rivals in it like the Borg of course, the Hirogen, Krenim, Malon, The Swarm and the Vidiians (My personal favourite, but could have been more hostile and long-running in the show imo)

There were many moral dilemmas and drama, but the thing that holds things together for me in Star Trek is the Character Development.

Last edited by Praxius; September 16 2014 at 07:55 AM.
Praxius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2014, 07:34 AM   #9
fireproof78
Commander
 
Re: Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

teacake wrote: View Post
At the end of Voyager we discover it all took place in a Skinnner box created by aliens.
It's Q! I knew it!
fireproof78 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2014, 08:12 AM   #10
teacock
Admiral
 
Location: teacake
Re: Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

Praxius wrote: View Post
Chakotay needed a bit more focus I thought. If they took a few of the Seven of Nine character development episodes out of the equation and put a couple more for him,
Beltran kinda sucked, Ryan kinda rocked. Writers took note.

See: Picardo.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2014, 08:12 AM   #11
teacock
Admiral
 
Location: teacake
Re: Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

fireproof78 wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
At the end of Voyager we discover it all took place in a Skinnner box created by aliens.
It's Q! I knew it!
I bet it's Q3 and Voyager is his diorama he's proudly made for Science Fair.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2014, 08:45 AM   #12
Fearless
Commodore
 
Fearless's Avatar
 
Location: TayLaLaLa
Re: Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

Voyager is cannabis

__________________
La la
La la la la
La la
La la la
Fearless is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2014, 08:49 AM   #13
teacock
Admiral
 
Location: teacake
Re: Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

I was made for lovin you baby you were made for lovin me.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2014, 08:49 AM   #14
teacock
Admiral
 
Location: teacake
Re: Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

Oh and cannabis? More like catnip
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 16 2014, 08:56 AM   #15
Fearless
Commodore
 
Fearless's Avatar
 
Location: TayLaLaLa
Re: Why do Star Trek fans hate Voyager? - Link

I think I have catnip bubbles round here somewhere...
__________________
La la
La la la la
La la
La la la
Fearless is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:33 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.