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Old July 15 2009, 07:08 PM   #16
Warped9
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

The points raised are quite fair. My only real basis for my perspective is that in "Obsession" there's a reference that about half the Farragut's crew were killed by the cloud creature--"it killed more than one hundred crewman." or something to that effect. That's only a quarter or less of a 400-430 complement for a Constitution-class. Mind you GR's initial take on the ship's crew was 203, but that was near immediately thrown out after "The Cage." You could still argue that while it was true for the Enterprise then so it could also have been true for the Farragut.

My other thinking is that in the Cage era there likely weren't "twelve like it" yet, but maybe half a dozen at most. However, it's entirely possible that the earlier Farragut of Garrovick's era has since been retired and decommissioned and a Constitution-class Farragut now exists.

At any rate here's the final image. I was aiming for something that had a Cage era feel to it.



There's meant to be something of an evolutionary link between the Valiant and the Farragut. The earlier era (lacks sufficient detail at this point) would be more rough and bulkier looking. The newer design reflects attributes seen even more evident in the Constitution-class, more gentle curves and more elegence (if you will) in overall design. The newer and significantly more advanced technology of the 2240s was being fitted into these existing Farragut type ships while the Connies were wholly new from scratch. While the Farras were the cruisers of their day they became equivalent to frigates in the Connie's era.

One thing I should try to do is dirty the ship, that is add touches of weathering as was done to TOS' 11ft filming miniature. As it is my Farragut looks like it was just launched new out of drydock of the late 2220s.
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Old July 15 2009, 07:57 PM   #17
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

That could work nicely for continuity purposes, barring the Farragut's actual appearance on-screen as Constitution-class.
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Old July 15 2009, 08:04 PM   #18
Cary L. Brown
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

DEWLine wrote: View Post
That could work nicely for continuity purposes, barring the Farragut's actual appearance on-screen as Constitution-class.
Well, there's nothing to infer that the Farragut that's flying around during TOS is the same Farragut which Kirk served on, though it's commonly assumed to be the case.

In my mind, the Farragut is the ship I saw in a classic Trek graphic novel, which was a Constitution-class ship. But that's a matter of personal taste... we've never been told anything either way.

I actually really like what Warped9 has done here. I'm pretty impressed that this was done in Photoshop. Ray, is this using the recently added (if I've read my magazine articles properly) 3D capability in Photoshop, or is this all literally 2D?

Either way... beautiful work, and yes, very much "of a piece" with the Star Trek I've known my entire life.
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Old July 15 2009, 08:04 PM   #19
Warped9
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

DEWLine wrote: View Post
That could work nicely for continuity purposes, barring the Farragut's actual appearance on-screen as Constitution-class.
And how likely is that to happen considering it's never been shown in forty years of the franchise?
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Old July 15 2009, 09:41 PM   #20
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

Warped9 wrote: View Post
DEWLine wrote: View Post
That could work nicely for continuity purposes, barring the Farragut's actual appearance on-screen as Constitution-class.
And how likely is that to happen considering it's never been shown in forty years of the franchise?
The Farragut that Kirk served on has been depicted in some comics and described as a Constitution class in novels. However, since those are not canon, your version serves very well.

Actually, I think your version is superior in this situation. It's nice to see the fleet fleshed out with something other than "Hero" class.
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Old July 16 2009, 02:26 AM   #21
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

I simply love these.
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Old July 16 2009, 02:36 AM   #22
Leroy
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

Those are great ships! Enterprise could've used designs like those.
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Old July 16 2009, 02:46 PM   #23
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
I actually really like what Warped9 has done here. I'm pretty impressed that this was done in Photoshop. Ray, is this using the recently added (if I've read my magazine articles properly) 3D capability in Photoshop, or is this all literally 2D?
This is strictly 2D although I tried for a 3D look. Basically this was very much a cut-and paste work broadly speaking. I cut peices or swatches off other images (mostly modern aircraft) and then distorted their shapes to get what I wanted. Each swatch was a new layer to be merged into other layers. I tried to take lighting and shadow into account so that it all fit together. Sometimes I had to add my own highlights or shadows. The existing variations of colour, tones and distorted reflections on the surfaces from with I took my swatches served to give the ship's hull added visual texture and precluded too much uniformity. I also had to desaturate swatches and match all the peices to have varying tones of the same overall colour for the hull.

It took me the framework of a day to do this one image. Mind you some of that time was taken up searching for the right swatches and pausing to consider how next to proceed.

I like to think of this as artwork, but with a computer rather than pencil and/or paintbrush. Even though it's 2D you still have to be able to think in 3D.

If I have a major criticism of this image it's in regard to the lower saucer dome. It's meant to be white or very light grey in contrast with the silvery grey of the rest of the hull, but it's still too bright for what I wanted and it even seems to look a bit transluscent which isn't what I initially intended.

I did add similar touches as the Pike era Enterprise to establish a visual connection: similar detailing on the upper saucer dome, the spiked nacelle domes, the large reddish deflector dish and the blue tinged dorsal.

3D modeling is beyond me at present with its steep learning curve. So this approach and my 2D schematic drawings (rendered in Illustrator) are the next best thing for me. They're the end result of what starts out as freehand sketching of ideas on scores of scrap paper and even restaurant napkins.

There's something else. This image doesn't look the way I see it on my eMac. I have the brightness turned down a bit on my display which makes it easier on the eyes. As I result I get what I see as a slightly darker and more natural looking lighting effect (considering the subject matter). On many other displays the brightness often appears to be set higher and so the image looks brighter and not as well shadowed. If I try to compensate for that so that it will look better on other displays then the image looks too dark on my computer.

Nothing's perfect and you can't please everyone.

On the plus side it doesn't much look like CGI or 3D computer modeling. Perhaps partly because I'm using photographs for my source material of swatches I end up with something that has a photographic quality to it as if you're seeing a physical object (such as a model kit) or perhaps even a filming miniature.


In regards to lineage and continuity.

My thinking is basically this: the Valiant was an older design assimilated into the Star Fleet service when it was established in the 2200s and much less advanced than the newer ships launched in the 2220s. Or the Valiant could have been one of the newer ships that was just fantastically unlucky when it got to Eminiar 7 (in that case then my design is wrong and I'd have to render another image. Hmm).

Somehow I don't see the Valiant's Captain bringing his crew down to Eminiar 7 to just complacently stroll into desintegration booths anymore than Kirk doing it. I think it more likely the Eminians and/or Vendikans got lucky and were able to blow the ship out of orbit like they were unable to do with the Enterprise fifty years later.

On further consideration I think I got the registry wrong. I'm thinking of this as a sistership of the Republic 1371. In that case the registry should be in the 1300 or 1400 range and not 1500.


Other ships I like to try:
- the Valiant referenced in "Where No Man Has Gone Before." Others have tried (like aridas) and so I'd like a crack at it. The small image shown in the Pocket Books' chronology and encyclopedia is interesting but I'm not completely sold on it.
- the "real" Bonaventure rather than the one shown in TAS' "Time Trap" episode.
- the ringship Enterprise only glimpsed on the display wall of TMP.
- the Independence-class as opposed to the Deadalus-class seen in DS9 on Sisko's desk and in the Pocket Books' publications. Essentially something between my ideas for the first Valiant, the Bonaventure and the ringship E and the Valiant I've depicted above.
-a destroyer equivalent class ship that was supposedly Kirk's first command before the TOS E. The FJ destroyer design might serve only as a conceptual springboard for what I'm thing of.
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Old July 16 2009, 07:33 PM   #24
Sarvek
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

Great work. Your designs have always had originality to them. These are great ships.

I had come up with my own design of the SS Valiant from Where No Man Has Gone Before. My design was based on the Valiant that Okuda designed as well as the SS Conestoga from Enterprise. One of these days I will have to post the design. It is quite unique and one of a kind.

Keep up the great work and keep on trekkin.
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Old July 16 2009, 10:19 PM   #25
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

I like these Pre TOS era ships and nice photo of young Kirk there
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Old July 18 2009, 05:47 AM   #26
GilmourD
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

The Farragut kinda reminds me of what the Kelvin would've been had it had two nacelles. Pretty cool.
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Old July 19 2009, 04:53 AM   #27
Rķu rķu, chķu
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

Professor Moriarty wrote: View Post
Yeah, it's like that dumbass habit of Starfleet naming expensive starships Enterprise. How many o' them suckers has met with a tragic demise?!
Only one: the 1701-D. That is the only Enterprise to end unfortunately - rather lame act of sabotage by Lursa and B'Etor.

The only other Enterprises where we even KNOW how they were destroyed is the 1701 (clearly honorable act by Kirk to prevent the ship's capture by Klingons) and the 1701-C (destroyed in open combat with Romulans).

Those latter two were clearly not the unfortunate, clusterfuck endings that the various Valiants have been subjected to.
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Old July 19 2009, 08:45 PM   #28
cbp44189
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

More, I need more.......
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Old July 20 2009, 11:50 AM   #29
Warped9
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

cbp44189 wrote: View Post
More, I need more.......
Try these.

Early concept for the Bonaventure:



And Valiant mentioned in WNMHGB:



I'm not that crazy about my Bonaventure idea, but I rather like the Valiant.

My thinking behind the Valiant. It could have initially been built as a fast relativistic starship capable of reaching 90-95% of light (for the crew to benefit from the relativistic time dilation) and was on its maiden voyage when Cochrane introduced his FTL space warp technology. On its return the Valiant found itself obsolete almost overnight. A collaboration was reached wherein the Valiant was retrofit with a space warp drive. It was the best of both worlds at the time for if the new stardrive went down inflight then the ship could resort to its already existent stardrive to get home. It would take years, but for the crew they could still benefit from the relativistic effect. Not long after, of course, perhaps after a voyage or two the ship disappears and its recorder marker is found nearly two centuries later by the U.S.S. Enterprise.
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Old July 20 2009, 02:49 PM   #30
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Re: TOS' U.S.S. Valiant and Farragut....

Those are fantastic!
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