Alter the credits?

RobertScorpio · August 8 2009, 02:52 PM

I know the director has a vision, and we don't want to change it..blah blah blah...but what about changing the first season credits of these -remastered- TOS DVDS, and put Dee's name in those first season credits. Does the actors union have some say so in this, so it cant happen?

Rob

Therin of Andor · August 8 2009, 09:46 PM

RobertScorpio wrote:

put Dee's name in those first season credits. Does the actors union have some say so in this, so it cant happen?

Actors' salaries and place in the credits are established in their contracts.

Christopher · August 9 2009, 12:18 AM

^That's right. Credits don't reflect people's importance to the story, they reflect how much people get paid. You can't change how much DeForest Kelley was paid for his TOS appearances in the first season, so you can't change his credit placement in those episodes. Or if you did, it would be misrepresenting the facts.

Maurice · August 9 2009, 04:03 AM

A better argument is: why change it? Just because?

People for years complained that they couldn't see the original credits of shows like I Love Lucy (the animated ones). Frankly, the shows are what they are, so stop fucking with them.

gastrof · August 9 2009, 04:51 AM

RobertScorpio wrote:

I know the director has a vision, and we don't want to change it..blah blah blah...but what about changing the first season credits of these -remastered- TOS DVDS, and put Dee's name in those first season credits. Does the actors union have some say so in this, so it cant happen?

Rob

The aim of TOSR was not to make changes to the episodes to satisfy someone's latter day whims.

The aim was to make the original episodes presentable when shown in high def, which the older copies were not.

Yes, they dared to make a Gorn blink and altered the view we had of the Enterprise in some scenes, but they also made sure the STARS were in the same place as before in others.

To actually change the opening credits...

I'd say this changes the presentation. The lack of Dee's credit says "first season". You know, if you wanted they could have recolored Spock's shirt to blue in WNMHGB, but then that'd be chopping out a chunk of "what was" too, wouldn't it?

There's no need to change the credits, but if you really feel the need, you could always take the openings from later episodes, and with some good DVD software, plug them into the first season episodes. Make your own discs!

Orcus · August 9 2009, 05:14 AM

I really don't see why this is a serious contention: McCoy wasn't originally envisiged as any more a major character than, say, Scotty or Uhura during the first season, was he? Wasn't the "big three" a later development...?

Admiral Buzzkill · August 9 2009, 05:22 AM

RobertScorpio wrote:

I know the director has a vision, and we don't want to change it..blah blah blah...but what about changing the first season credits of these -remastered- TOS DVDS, and put Dee's name in those first season credits. Does the actors union have some say so in this, so it cant happen?

Rob

The directors had nothing to do with the opening credits of the show.

The "actors union" doesn't have a "say" in this as such, not after forty years (the conditions under which actors were employed, and what they were entitled to under the terms of various contracts, were things that the actors unions were and are engaged in, yes). Why is it that the first dumb idea people always come up with when they think that someone is underpaid or undercredited that it's the result of union interference? Only in under-educated over-propagandized America do many people believe that worker representation is designed to prevent workers from succeeding.

As Therin said, these things are established by contract. So leave the damned credits alone.

trevanian · August 9 2009, 05:44 AM

Orcus wrote:

I really don't see why this is a serious contention: McCoy wasn't originally envisiged as any more a major character than, say, Scotty or Uhura during the first season, was he? Wasn't the "big three" a later development...?

Came out of Coon seeing how Nimoy & Kelley sparked one another, and then writing the hell out of it, so that is mainly a mid-to-late first season thing, 'rewarded' in second season's credit promotion. Though to be fair, I've read that Shatner lobbied for Kelley's credit as well (maybe to make Nimoy's placement less special?)

RobertScorpio · August 9 2009, 11:00 AM

trevanian wrote:

Orcus wrote:

I really don't see why this is a serious contention: McCoy wasn't originally envisiged as any more a major character than, say, Scotty or Uhura during the first season, was he? Wasn't the "big three" a later development...?

Came out of Coon seeing how Nimoy & Kelley sparked one another, and then writing the hell out of it, so that is mainly a mid-to-late first season thing, 'rewarded' in second season's credit promotion. Though to be fair, I've read that Shatner lobbied for Kelley's credit as well (maybe to make Nimoy's placement less special?)

Oh but thats all in the past..I bet Nimoy would favor such a revision 40 years later...

Rob

trevanian · August 9 2009, 06:16 PM

RobertScorpio wrote:

trevanian wrote:

Orcus wrote:

I really don't see why this is a serious contention: McCoy wasn't originally envisiged as any more a major character than, say, Scotty or Uhura during the first season, was he? Wasn't the "big three" a later development...?

Came out of Coon seeing how Nimoy & Kelley sparked one another, and then writing the hell out of it, so that is mainly a mid-to-late first season thing, 'rewarded' in second season's credit promotion. Though to be fair, I've read that Shatner lobbied for Kelley's credit as well (maybe to make Nimoy's placement less special?)

Oh but thats all in the past..I bet Nimoy would favor such a revision 40 years later...

Rob

Maybe he'd prefer to have the actors 'sign' their names onscreen, a la TUC.

Green Shirt · August 9 2009, 08:05 PM

trevanian wrote:

RobertScorpio wrote:

trevanian wrote:

Came out of Coon seeing how Nimoy & Kelley sparked one another, and then writing the hell out of it, so that is mainly a mid-to-late first season thing, 'rewarded' in second season's credit promotion. Though to be fair, I've read that Shatner lobbied for Kelley's credit as well (maybe to make Nimoy's placement less special?)

Oh but thats all in the past..I bet Nimoy would favor such a revision 40 years later...

Rob

Maybe he'd prefer to have the actors 'sign' their names onscreen, a la TUC.

Or given Nimoy's preferences in photographic subjects, how about artsy-fartsy photos of their asses -- with the signatures?

KingstonTrekker · August 10 2009, 09:11 PM

On a different but related note, I was surprised that the end credits were not remastered for TOSR. It is strange to watch a remastered episode, with wonderful new effects and visuals, and then be jarred by seeing the original visuals in the final credits.

Kirkman1987 · August 10 2009, 09:25 PM

KingstonTrekker wrote:

On a different but related note, I was surprised that the end credits were not remastered for TOSR. It is strange to watch a remastered episode, with wonderful new effects and visuals, and then be jarred by seeing the original visuals in the final credits.

My guess is to match the original pictures would have been impossible as they remastered the episodes out of sequence.

Esteban · August 11 2009, 02:18 AM

trevanian wrote:

Came out of Coon seeing how Nimoy & Kelley sparked one another, and then writing the hell out of it, so that is mainly a mid-to-late first season thing, 'rewarded' in second season's credit promotion.

To be fair, I think the McCoy character took off from the get go. Obviously, as Coon had so much original or doctoring credit on the second half of the first season, he ran with it, but I think McCoy and De's portrayal would have been realized by anyone by episode 10.

Captain Robert April · August 11 2009, 07:30 AM

Was De signed as a regular during the first season? There were a couple of first season episodes that he wasn't in, so McCoy may have just been a recurring part that recurred far more often than was initially planned, resulting in De getting signed as a regular the following season. And that would have a big influence on his screen credit, or lack thereof.

August 8 2009, 02:52 PM	#1
RobertScorpio Pariah Location: San Diego	Alter the credits? I know the director has a vision, and we don't want to change it..blah blah blah...but what about changing the first season credits of these -remastered- TOS DVDS, and put Dee's name in those first season credits. Does the actors union have some say so in this, so it cant happen? Rob

August 9 2009, 12:18 AM	#3
Christopher Writer	Re: Alter the credits? ^That's right. Credits don't reflect people's importance to the story, they reflect how much people get paid. You can't change how much DeForest Kelley was paid for his TOS appearances in the first season, so you can't change his credit placement in those episodes. Or if you did, it would be misrepresenting the facts. __________________ Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Includes purchasing links for Only Superhuman, on sale now! Updated 12/30/12 with annotations for the novel. Written Worlds -- My blog

August 9 2009, 04:03 AM	#4
Maurice Rear Admiral Location: Maurice in San Francisco	Re: Alter the credits? A better argument is: why change it? Just because? People for years complained that they couldn't see the original credits of shows like I Love Lucy (the animated ones). Frankly, the shows are what they are, so stop fucking with them. __________________ * * * "Star Trek…at times sparkled with true ingenuity, and pure science fiction approaches, and at other times was more carnival like, and very much more the creature of television than the creature of a legitimate literary form." —Rod Serling, 1970"

August 9 2009, 05:14 AM	#6
Orcus Captain Location: New Zealand	Re: Alter the credits? I really don't see why this is a serious contention: McCoy wasn't originally envisiged as any more a major character than, say, Scotty or Uhura during the first season, was he? Wasn't the "big three" a later development...?

August 10 2009, 09:11 PM	#12
KingstonTrekker Commander Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada	Re: Alter the credits? On a different but related note, I was surprised that the end credits were not remastered for TOSR. It is strange to watch a remastered episode, with wonderful new effects and visuals, and then be jarred by seeing the original visuals in the final credits.

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August 11 2009, 07:30 AM	#15
Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...	Re: Alter the credits? Was De signed as a regular during the first season? There were a couple of first season episodes that he wasn't in, so McCoy may have just been a recurring part that recurred far more often than was initially planned, resulting in De getting signed as a regular the following season. And that would have a big influence on his screen credit, or lack thereof.