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Old July 11 2009, 03:15 AM   #1
Chrisisall
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Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

With post 9-11, the Iraq war, the continued fighting in Afghanistan, global climate change & the economic downturn... is this the perfect time for Star Trek to resurface in another form? The original was during the time of Vietnam (20th Century Brush Wars-?) & racial inequality- do hard times demand/need positive, reaffirming escapist science fiction?

And...

are Tribbles inherently anti-eco-friendly?
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Old July 11 2009, 06:15 AM   #2
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Re: Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

I suppose its about time for a resurgence in peoples interest in Trek, but not exactly for the reasons you mentioned. For a while it seemed like "dark gloomy" sci fi was the in thing. Much of this was due to the post 9-11 stuff. People are tired of that stuff now and want some more optimistic sci-fi. Thats my take at least
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Old July 11 2009, 06:29 AM   #3
Chrisisall
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Re: Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

clint g wrote: View Post
Much of this was due to the post 9-11 stuff.
Aren't you making my case for me with that statement?
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Old July 11 2009, 08:52 AM   #4
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Re: Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

No. What I'm saying is that they're was surge in depressing tv after 9-11. people are tired off that type of show, and thats why something like Trek would do well. I think it has to do with the type of television and movies we have had post 9-11. As far as I can tell you're argument seems to be saying that people want something optimistic in depressing times.
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Old July 11 2009, 09:21 AM   #5
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Re: Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

clint g wrote: View Post
No. What I'm saying is that they're was surge in depressing tv after 9-11. people are tired off that type of show, and thats why something like Trek would do well. I think it has to do with the type of television and movies we have had post 9-11. As far as I can tell you're argument seems to be saying that people want something optimistic in depressing times.
Any time is a good time for a resurgence in Trek interest.

As for post 9/11 Trek, we already had that: Enterprise. The entire Xindi arc itself was intended to be simultaneously darker and morally fuzzy yet ultimately more heroic than most of previous Trek.

Now, whether or not Season 3 did it well is a topic for another thread. The point is, real-world events certainly shaped how stories would be created.

Additionally, I also feel like any Trek from now on will be by default more nuanced and go in many more different directions than it ever had. It could be gloomy Trek or optimistic Trek, but it will be more varied. That's not to knock the previous Trek history, it's just that I feel that 9/11 morphed the way writers handle material these days. Whatever Trek we get, even bright and cheery Trek will have a post 9/11 mindset. That doesn't automatically mean doom and gloom, either.
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Old July 11 2009, 03:57 PM   #6
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Re: Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

With the success of the new movie, I'd say people are definitely looking towards more optimistic stuff like Star Trek to give them their sci fi jollies.

Here's hoping they don't suddenly flip that around with the next movie.
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Old July 11 2009, 04:05 PM   #7
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Re: Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

My renewed interest was brought about by the new movie... I don't know about anyone else.
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Old July 11 2009, 04:50 PM   #8
clint g
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Re: Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
clint g wrote: View Post
No. What I'm saying is that they're was surge in depressing tv after 9-11. people are tired off that type of show, and thats why something like Trek would do well. I think it has to do with the type of television and movies we have had post 9-11. As far as I can tell you're argument seems to be saying that people want something optimistic in depressing times.
Any time is a good time for a resurgence in Trek interest.

As for post 9/11 Trek, we already had that: Enterprise. The entire Xindi arc itself was intended to be simultaneously darker and morally fuzzy yet ultimately more heroic than most of previous Trek.

Now, whether or not Season 3 did it well is a topic for another thread. The point is, real-world events certainly shaped how stories would be created.

Additionally, I also feel like any Trek from now on will be by default more nuanced and go in many more different directions than it ever had. It could be gloomy Trek or optimistic Trek, but it will be more varied. That's not to knock the previous Trek history, it's just that I feel that 9/11 morphed the way writers handle material these days. Whatever Trek we get, even bright and cheery Trek will have a post 9/11 mindset. That doesn't automatically mean doom and gloom, either.
I never said real life events wont have an impact. I do think people are mostly bored with the gloom and doom aspect of sci-fi that became more common after 9-11 and now they are looking for more optimistic stuff; if only because the other type had become so common in the last few years
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Old July 11 2009, 05:50 PM   #9
Chrisisall
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Re: Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

clint g wrote: View Post
I do think people are mostly bored with the gloom and doom aspect of sci-fi that became more common after 9-11 and now they are looking for more optimistic stuff; if only because the other type had become so common in the last few years
No offense to hardcore Galactica fans, buy MAN was some of that depressing! Especially the beating & rape of 6 in the Pegasus brig, even if it was mostly off camera...
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Old July 11 2009, 06:17 PM   #10
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Re: Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

DS9 is probably the best example how to do dark, serial sci fi without losing the comedy. After all tragedies happen everyday, but you have to come out of mourning eventually and find humour, even if its the gallows variety. As they say, if life keeps on throwing you lemons... make juice and add sugar to taste. Enterprise was devoid of that because it was (at the risk of offering critics an open goal) desperate stuff. The whole of humanity was at stake, losing people in a devastating attack and compromising morality to ensure the odds of success improve. That was a deliberate decision and addressed complaints about how much aimless, happy-go-lucky wandering was done in the first two seasons. As much as I liked the Xindi arc, Season 4 felt like a breath of fresh with characters being able to finally reaffirm their friends and "lighten up" by the time the Augument trilogy rolled around. See that great "Here we are again" moment as the repaired NX-01 leaves dock, off to bring back Dr. Soong's "children". Archer giving T'Pol her full Commander position and an antique compass as a gift, to help her find her way. All those moments were special for me in that final year and of course, could have been improved on had the show continued.

Star Trek can still reflect modern times. A desperate and costly struggle against those who don't value freedom in far off lands. Dictators losing their grip on power, focusing on developing terrible weapons to use against us. But the main characters, our heroes need to be more light than shade and be able to do the right thing, without lowering their own standards to fight the good fight. In my honest opinion of course...
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Old July 11 2009, 06:34 PM   #11
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Re: Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

clint g wrote: View Post
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
clint g wrote: View Post
No. What I'm saying is that they're was surge in depressing tv after 9-11. people are tired off that type of show, and thats why something like Trek would do well. I think it has to do with the type of television and movies we have had post 9-11. As far as I can tell you're argument seems to be saying that people want something optimistic in depressing times.
Any time is a good time for a resurgence in Trek interest.

As for post 9/11 Trek, we already had that: Enterprise. The entire Xindi arc itself was intended to be simultaneously darker and morally fuzzy yet ultimately more heroic than most of previous Trek.

Now, whether or not Season 3 did it well is a topic for another thread. The point is, real-world events certainly shaped how stories would be created.

Additionally, I also feel like any Trek from now on will be by default more nuanced and go in many more different directions than it ever had. It could be gloomy Trek or optimistic Trek, but it will be more varied. That's not to knock the previous Trek history, it's just that I feel that 9/11 morphed the way writers handle material these days. Whatever Trek we get, even bright and cheery Trek will have a post 9/11 mindset. That doesn't automatically mean doom and gloom, either.
I never said real life events wont have an impact. I do think people are mostly bored with the gloom and doom aspect of sci-fi that became more common after 9-11 and now they are looking for more optimistic stuff; if only because the other type had become so common in the last few years
I don't think I misunderstood you. I didn't say that you said real life events won't have an impact (if that makes any sense, sorry if i'm being unclear). I'm saying real life events would shape the complexities of stories, ie you can tell what events affected the story by the way it's written.

For all we credit 9/11 as being the source of darker stories, I think that we're not mentioning the massive increase of American patriotism and global goodwill that grew in the aftermath. That in itself is the opposite of doom and gloom, I think. For example, Enterprise used the attacks as a source for the Xindi attack, but the victory over the sphere builders was one event that would eventually lead to nations banding together to form what would become the Federation. (of course I'd like to see the aftermath of Vulcan's death in the next film, to see how the Trek universe is shaken up and recover).
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Old July 11 2009, 06:40 PM   #12
clint g
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Re: Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

No ones mentioning it because it isn't really applicable to the thread as presented by the OP. Theres no doubt that there was a surge of darker sci-fi that came out in the past decade. 9-11(and the wars that followed) receives alot of credit for that and thats what this thread was about. If this thread was about patriotic themes that are present in TV and sci-fi than sure. Thats not what the thread was about though
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Old July 11 2009, 09:01 PM   #13
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Re: Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

The resurgence in interest in Trek is due to it being good after years of Berman's mismanagement. People are always up for a good movie. Good TV show, too.
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Old July 11 2009, 11:00 PM   #14
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Re: Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

Chrisisall wrote: View Post
With post 9-11, the Iraq war, the continued fighting in Afghanistan, global climate change & the economic downturn... is this the perfect time for Star Trek to resurface in another form? The original was during the time of Vietnam (20th Century Brush Wars-?) & racial inequality- do hard times demand/need positive, reaffirming escapist science fiction?

And...

are Tribbles inherently anti-eco-friendly?
Makes sense to me. Part of what caused me to fall in love w/ Star Trek (especially TNG) was that its positive, optimistic view of the future was a counterpoint to certain parts of my real life.

And...

yes, Tribbles are inherently eco-unfriendly. :-)
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Old July 11 2009, 11:32 PM   #15
Cyke101
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Re: Time for a resurgence in Trek interest?

clint g wrote: View Post
No ones mentioning it because it isn't really applicable to the thread as presented by the OP. Theres no doubt that there was a surge of darker sci-fi that came out in the past decade. 9-11(and the wars that followed) receives alot of credit for that and thats what this thread was about. If this thread was about patriotic themes that are present in TV and sci-fi than sure. Thats not what the thread was about though
Where did I say that 9/11 didn't lead to the surge of darker sci-fi ? (like I said, the Xindi Arc was mighty dark for Trek) This thread is about whether or not we're bound for a surge of brighter sci-fi. I'm saying that when there's brighter sci-fi these days, that too is and will be different than previous brighter sci-fi as yet another consequence of the very same things that brought us darker sci-fi. Brighter could be patriotic, brighter could be hopeful, brighter could be exploratory, brighter could be enlightenment, but whatever form it takes, it is *still brighter* nonetheless.

Artistic trends tend to flow almost one way, almost like a narrative fabric. Aesthetics improve, methods are sharpened, but they're always linked as well. An upsurge in reaffirming, escapist fiction will still be tied. When I mentioned the increase of patriotism and global goodwill as an additional consequence of 9/11, it was to connect life to art, and how art will cover all bases, up to and including positive and healthy escapism.

The OP asks is it time for such fiction. I'm saying that the real question isn't about time, but how fiction continually changes and how those hopeful changes that the OP asks about are in some ways already here.
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