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Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

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Old August 10 2009, 06:45 AM   #751
RoJoHen
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

What blows me away most about "Sleeping in Light" is that it was filmed as the Season 4 finale, yet it was used a whole year later. B5 was meant to end a certain way, and that was it.
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Old August 10 2009, 06:51 AM   #752
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

I'm not sure if that blew me away or not. Something I did like though was the non-use of the title sequence (Or using the Sleeping in Light theme at the end with the credits) in favor of more time and a 44 minute episode instead of the typical 42. Great use of the credits for this one.

I'll post a season recap tomorrow. I was to wowed by the finale to get negative tonight even though there was some of Season 5 I did like.
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Old August 10 2009, 07:24 AM   #753
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

Cool. Maybe a series in review reflection as well?
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Old August 10 2009, 08:28 AM   #754
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
I find it refreshing actually that with this age of dark and gritty shows where hope is thrown out the window, this show was dark and gritty but hope was always there.
Yep. Nicely said.

I've long since lost count of how many times I've seen this episode and it still blows me away every time. I've also run out of superlatives to describe it.

One of the nice things about being around TBBS so long is seeing people discover Babylon 5 and being able to "relive" (in a sense) the sorts of reactions I experienced the first time I saw the series. I'd like very much to somehow be able to see it again for the first time but threads like this are a decent substitute.
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Old August 10 2009, 01:42 PM   #755
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

Lochley: I think we all disliked her for a few reasons, mostly because we wanted Claudia back with her unresolved issues, and Traci has never been that great an actor.

But one thing that really pissed me off was what TNT did for B5 promos when they first bought the show. They had the actors in ridiculous, insulting little vignettes between commercials. Traci's (in full Lochley uniform) was wandering around Green Bay asking people about this alien race she heard of called "Cheese Heads"... Oh god it was awful. Here we had the newbie actor on the show being introduced to us in the most insulting manner possible... Just, ugh.
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Old August 10 2009, 02:46 PM   #756
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

Forbin wrote: View Post
Emphasis mine
Lochley: I think we all disliked her for a few reasons, mostly because we wanted Claudia back with her unresolved issues, and Traci [sic] has never been that great an actor.
To be fair, neither was Christian.
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Old August 10 2009, 03:15 PM   #757
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

Thanks for sharing the trip with us, tomalak. Now you can start the second viewing and see all the things you missed the first time around!

As for destiny and foreshadowing, one thing that I liked most about the show was that we often were shown exactly what would happen but along the way we discovered that why it happened was far different than we'd thought. Such as

I'm not sure any other TV show has ever attempted that.

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Old August 10 2009, 06:35 PM   #758
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

middyseafort wrote: View Post
Forbin wrote: View Post
Emphasis mine
Lochley: I think we all disliked her for a few reasons, mostly because we wanted Claudia back with her unresolved issues, and Traci [sic] has never been that great an actor.
To be fair, neither was Christian.
Claudia Christian was never very good on Babylon 5, save for 'Rising Star,' but she was awfully good on Freaks and Geeks and a few other things I've seen her in. Looking at IMDB, though, she's been in an awful lot of crap (Manica Cop 2? A Bruce Campbell movie that is so bad, it's not even on DVD!).
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Old August 10 2009, 10:24 PM   #759
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

I always liked the Lochley character.

The one thing that annoyed me was the marriage to Sheridan. It seemed like a forced tidbit. I would have found it more credible if they were just former lovers. But, that is a little nitpick.

Kudos to the actress for stepping in and doing a good job.

I was disappointed when CC did not return for season 5, but that was her choice.

Well with time and space between me and Byron, my loathing has cooled. The actor worked well as a Minbari. I think the entire storyline just fell flat for me, and after the great ride that was season 4, I wanted the story to have oomph.
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Old August 10 2009, 11:35 PM   #760
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

Kosh Naranek wrote: View Post
Well with time and space between me and Byron, my loathing has cooled. The actor worked well as a Minbari. I think the entire storyline just fell flat for me, and after the great ride that was season 4, I wanted the story to have oomph.
If you look back even on this thread you'll see comments about how the first episodes of *every* season start off slow. Given how much had been tied up in S4, even if everybody had adored Byron there still would have been issues of slowness. Me, I'm just happy that we got so many experimental/stand-alones and the wrap-up of the Centauri Prime and Londo stories.

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Old August 11 2009, 01:45 AM   #761
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

Well, I thought Claudia was a decent actress, and I liked Ivanova. I also liked Scoggins as Lochley and the more the season went on, the more I did come around to her. I guess perhaps this might be a good sign for whenever I get to Crusade.

Anyway, time for a Season 5 and Series Recap:

Season 5

I didn't want to post this last night because I had a feeling my recap would have killed the vibe of good feelings after watching the finale. I'm still kind of digesting Sleeping in Light, but it's good enough time to write about the season as a whole. Frankly, I was very disappointed with Season 5, and putting it at the bottom of the ranking of Seasons. There were quite a number of good episodes, both in the first half and second, but there were a lot of episodes where I kept on thinking B5 was staggering towards the finish line instead of full speed ahead. Some of these include Secret of the Soul, which really disappointed me because it was kind of dull, and it was pretty much the episode that sent Lyta into a downward spiral. I didn't like what the character became, even though it was probably a necessary evil. I just felt that in the previous seasons, and especially in The Gathering, she was a lot cooler. Another episode that really disappointed me was The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father. Like I said in the review, this probably would have been a good late season 1 early season 2 episode to introduce the Psi-corps. As it was, this was dull, and being Bester's final episode, I was just really let down by it.

Not all of it was bad. I liked some of the telepath story and I still don't mind Byron. I don't hate him, but I don't like him. He was just there, but I do still wonder if the actor playing him hindered the performence. What if someone like Chris Eccleston or James Callis or hell, even the guy who played Spike on Buffy and was in Torchwood a few times played him. It might have been a lot better and the attitude and tone might have been more believeable. I also loved the Centauri storyline which is just as good, if not better than some of the storylines in past seasons.

The Characters were good this year too, especially Garibaldi, G'Kar and Londo. I thought those three characters had an outstanding year just in development and what happened. Surprisingly, I thought Delenn and Sheridan did not have a good year, other than the final episodes as Sleeping in Light. Maybe I just like Sheridan in a commanding role, on the white star ready to kick ass. I just thought the cuddling between him and Delenn got tiring pretty quickly.

So, given this is long, Season 5 in a nutshell: Disappointing season, making me wish for the good days of Season 2-4, but really improved in the final 10 episodes.

Top 5 and Bottom 3 now:

Top 5 (In Order)

Movements of Fire and Shadow/Sleeping in Light (Tie because I want to )
Fall of Centauri Prime
A Very Long Night of Londo Mollari
Darkness Ascending
And All My Dreams, Torn Asunder

Bottom 3 (In Order)
The Corps is Mother, The Corps is Father
Secrets of the Soul
Learning Curve

The Series

Overall, I loved this series. It was a great ride from start to finish with great characters and great ideas. I actually went through this in my review of Sleeping in Light, but I think what I really liked about this series was the idea that peace can be achieved in a world where it might be impossible. It was a series where the juxtaposition of Hope/Fear and Life/Death were great because it was a "dark" series, but it didn't depress me. I would recommend it to anyone.

Ranking the Seasons

Season 3
Season 2
Season 4
Season 1
Season 5

Ranking the Seasons based on Theme Song

Season 3
Season 5
Season 4
Season 2
Season 1

Top 15 episodes Overall

Severed Dreams
The Long Twilight Struggle
Sleeping in Light
The Coming of Shadows
The Face of the Enemy
War Without End
Into the Fire
Z'Ha'Dum
Endgame
In the Shadow of Z'Ha'Dum
Shadow Dancing
Movements of Fire and Shadow
And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place
Signs and Portants
Chrysalis



So that's it. I'll probably write some about the movies whenever that happens, but This thread has been fun. In fact, it's been the most successful thread I've started (Minus the NFL Season discussions and stuff like that) ever on this board. It was so fun having the interaction and I picked up a few things. You guys are awesome.
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Old August 11 2009, 02:05 AM   #762
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

Aside from putting S4 over S2 slightly I agree with most of what you said. Well, except for liking Lochely and Byron So would you say it's the GREATEST tv show ever made? That's what I always say
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Old August 11 2009, 02:06 AM   #763
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

Mr Light wrote: View Post
Aside from putting S4 over S2 slightly I agree with most of what you said. Well, except for liking Lochely and Byron So would you say it's the GREATEST tv show ever made? That's what I always say
I still like Farscape but B5 is up there.
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Old August 11 2009, 02:13 AM   #764
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

Tomalak,
It has been a pleasure to read this thread - to experience the show again from someone else's fresh perspective. I'm glad you liked it!

If I had to sum up why I love the show so much, it would be two points:

- Change - the only constant in the B5 Universe. To have a show continuous make drastic changes from season to season (and within seasons) was (and still is) such a difference from most other shows. This change, from the galactic level to the personal level is why B5 really is by far the most pure Space Opera television has seen.

- Characters - No show is any good without good characters. And so many great ones were on B5. Londo & G'Kar primarily. While the show was naturally very human-centered, I think those two were at the real core of what the show was about. The choices me make.

- Neato FX and ships didn't hurt either.


I'll certainly be interested in hearing what you think of the B5 movies, should you get around to them.
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Old August 11 2009, 03:18 AM   #765
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Re: Babylon 5 - I'm finally going to do it

This has been a lovely thread, tomalok301. I hope you make time for the movies and for the failed (commercially, not necessarily creatively) spin-offs. I think, on the whole, you won't be as pleased with them as you were the series, but there's plenty of things to enjoy there.
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