When People become too fanatic

MikeNeko · July 3 2009, 04:58 PM

With Michael Jackson's death, we are faced once again with people who whether they knew him personally or not, they are committing suicide.

Why? Gene Roddenberry's feelings were "It is better to live and hopefully change the world for the better." or I just think it is better to live and remember.

This happened when Elvis died as well.

To me, when a group of people follow one person around and worships him, isn't this becoming a cult? They have raised him to the level of a god. These people shower them with gifts and things they can't afford to give themselves in life and if this "god" were to die they are more than willing to follow?

Opinions?

Locutus of Bored · July 3 2009, 06:25 PM

It's important to keep in perspective that out of tens and possibly even hundreds of millions of fans worldwide, there are about a dozen sketchy reports of suicides, many of which are just rumors and most of which have not even been confirmed to have anything to do with Jackson. Jonestown this is not.

Also, people who would commit suicide over this obviously have preexisting deep emotional problems and are not those who were just happy-go-lucky until the day Jackson died and it flipped a switch.

RJDiogenes · July 3 2009, 10:59 PM

I remember, years ago, when MJ was injured during the making of a Pepsi commercial, there were rumors that he had died; there followed from that rumors that people had committed or attempted suicide (I think there was even one rumor that a woman had attempted to kill both herself and her child). I don't recall if any of this was substantiated, but I imagine, given MJ's fall from grace in recent years, that it's even less of a problem now than it was then. I'd be willing to bet that most, if not all, MJ-inspired suicides are Snopes fodder.

MikeNeko · July 4 2009, 12:36 AM

You are right. I was talking with a friend and their opinion is suicide in these cases are 1) the person already has some kind of depression problem and a death sends them over the edge or 2) they WANT to follow their "god" where ever he goes. It is such a fine line that it could be Jonestown.

If a Super Star got up on stage and said "Drink kool-aid", I wonder how many people would?

Not going quite that far but drinking or taking drugs, tatoo or piercing your body just because your favorite singer or actor does it, isn't that following because you want to be as cool as that person?

Goliath · July 4 2009, 12:42 AM

Damn medievalism.

PKTrekGirl · July 4 2009, 12:47 AM

Agreed that anyone who commits suicide as a result of a celebrity death wasn't playing with a full deck to begin with.

That said, there are plenty of imbalanced people out there, and there always has been. There are confirmed and documented reports of several women trying to commit suicide when Rudolph Valentino (arguably the first movie heart-throb) died unexpectedly in 1926. At least 2 women succeeded in offing themselves. So this phenomenon is nothing new.

MikeNeko · July 4 2009, 01:37 AM

PKTrekGirl wrote:

There are confirmed and documented reports of several women trying to commit suicide when Rudolph Valentino (arguably the first movie heart-throb) died unexpectedly in 1926. At least 2 women succeeded in offing themselves. So this phenomenon is nothing new.

I agree. I am glad you said it because I was going to talk about Valentino. I am sure James Dean had some too. Which is interesting did any men or women commit suicide when Jean Harlow or Marilyn Monroe died?

I know it has to do something with going before their time. I do not know if anyone decided to follow Clark Gable or Cary Grant. BUT then again there is River Phoenix and Heath Ledger. People were upset but not to the point of suicide that I am aware of

RJDiogenes · July 4 2009, 10:41 AM

I wonder about people like President Kennedy or Martin Luther King. I don't know of any stories, but I'm sure there must have been.

MikeNeko · July 4 2009, 04:30 PM

Another great question. I do not remember anything like that being reported but then again the media was still quiet at that time. It wasn't until Nixon and Watergate that the media decided that politicians and actors were fair game and started reporting everything!

I have to admire the Kennedy Family that they spread John Jr. ashes in the ocean, because they feared that if he had a grave, people would come there and "worship" him.

I just wonder what the Jackson Family has planned? First it was Neverland (a West Coast version of Graceland?) which the state would not allow. Tuesday is the Memorial Service at Staples and then what? Where will he be buried and how much money is the Family going to make off of their "personal" suffering? Are they suddenly going to "decide" as a tribute to Michael, they will come together and out of their "kindness of their hearts" perform at the venues where Michael was suppose to perform at in honor to him for his fans? A lot of money to be made off of the dead.

I apologize to those who can not get even of Elvis that they must do a pilgrimage to Graceland but it is the willingness to pay money that upsets me.

I have visited Arlington Cemetary and seen JFK's grave. In Israel there is the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Neither places charge money for one to show their love and respect of the dead.

Living or gone I just think giving your life savings away because you are told it is for the "good" is a very bad idea. Choose your "Family" wisely.

barnaclelapse · July 4 2009, 04:37 PM

If the death of Michael Jackson is enough to get you to kill yourself, then you were probably headed for disaster anyway.

Kirk's_Tights · July 4 2009, 04:41 PM

MikeNeko wrote:

Not going quite that far but drinking or taking drugs, tatoo or piercing your body just because your favorite singer or actor does it, isn't that following because you want to be as cool as that person?

It's not to be "as cool" as them, it's to feel like you have a connection to that person.

sidious618 · July 4 2009, 04:57 PM

Kirk's_Tights wrote:

MikeNeko wrote:

Not going quite that far but drinking or taking drugs, tatoo or piercing your body just because your favorite singer or actor does it, isn't that following because you want to be as cool as that person?

It's not to be "as cool" as them, it's to feel like you have a connection to that person.

That's why I sit around watching porn all day and worrying about government conspiracies. It want to be just like him <-----.

freak · July 6 2009, 06:00 PM

I can understand people really liking MJ and appreciating him for his music and career. However, I don't understand the fanatics surrounding his death. People think he's god or a god and literally worshipped the ground he walked on. I really respected him and loved his music but I did not worship him cause he himself had lots of problems, such as a lost childhood. I blame that on the parents! Anyway, it's just sad to see people taking their own lives cause of MJ's death. I wonder what would happen if William Shatner, heaven forbid, dies? I know I'll be heartbroken and crushed but I won't try to off myself because of it. All I'm gonna say is that this is a crazy, twisted world we're living in at the moment and it's gonna get worse before it ever gets better.

Mike Farley · July 6 2009, 09:59 PM

MikeNeko wrote:

I just wonder what the Jackson Family has planned? First it was Neverland (a West Coast version of Graceland?) which the state would not allow. Tuesday is the Memorial Service at Staples and then what? Where will he be buried and how much money is the Family going to make off of their "personal" suffering? Are they suddenly going to "decide" as a tribute to Michael, they will come together and out of their "kindness of their hearts" perform at the venues where Michael was suppose to perform at in honor to him for his fans? A lot of money to be made off of the dead.

They'll probably take his ashes on tour accompanied by a handful of "new" songs "discovered" in the vaults.

MikeNeko · July 7 2009, 02:20 AM

The latest I heard is, there are actually locked off areas of Forest Lawn in LA and that is where he is going to end up. Again, the thought of people going up there and "joining" him scares the "bleep" out of me.

Affection between couples is one thing. But the un-natural worshipping of many people to one is a "Family" that I choose not to be a part of.

CULT CULT CULT

July 3 2009, 04:58 PM	#1
MikeNeko Lieutenant Location: Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind.	When People become too fanatic With Michael Jackson's death, we are faced once again with people who whether they knew him personally or not, they are committing suicide. Why? Gene Roddenberry's feelings were "It is better to live and hopefully change the world for the better." or I just think it is better to live and remember. This happened when Elvis died as well. To me, when a group of people follow one person around and worships him, isn't this becoming a cult? They have raised him to the level of a god. These people shower them with gifts and things they can't afford to give themselves in life and if this "god" were to die they are more than willing to follow? Opinions?

July 3 2009, 06:25 PM	#2
Locutus of Bored Backseat X-Wing Driver Location: Huntington Beach, CA	Re: When People become too fanatic It's important to keep in perspective that out of tens and possibly even hundreds of millions of fans worldwide, there are about a dozen sketchy reports of suicides, many of which are just rumors and most of which have not even been confirmed to have anything to do with Jackson. Jonestown this is not. Also, people who would commit suicide over this obviously have preexisting deep emotional problems and are not those who were just happy-go-lucky until the day Jackson died and it flipped a switch. __________________ "The fundamental cause of trouble in the world is that the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt." - Bertrand Russell

July 3 2009, 10:59 PM	#3
RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Location: RJDiogenes of Boston	Re: When People become too fanatic I remember, years ago, when MJ was injured during the making of a Pepsi commercial, there were rumors that he had died; there followed from that rumors that people had committed or attempted suicide (I think there was even one rumor that a woman had attempted to kill both herself and her child). I don't recall if any of this was substantiated, but I imagine, given MJ's fall from grace in recent years, that it's even less of a problem now than it was then. I'd be willing to bet that most, if not all, MJ-inspired suicides are Snopes fodder. __________________ Please stop by my Gallery and YouTube Page for a visit. And read Trunkards!

July 4 2009, 12:36 AM	#4
MikeNeko Lieutenant Location: Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind.	Re: When People become too fanatic You are right. I was talking with a friend and their opinion is suicide in these cases are 1) the person already has some kind of depression problem and a death sends them over the edge or 2) they WANT to follow their "god" where ever he goes. It is such a fine line that it could be Jonestown. If a Super Star got up on stage and said "Drink kool-aid", I wonder how many people would? Not going quite that far but drinking or taking drugs, tatoo or piercing your body just because your favorite singer or actor does it, isn't that following because you want to be as cool as that person?

July 4 2009, 12:42 AM	#5
Goliath Vice Admiral Location: The Fifth Dimension	Re: When People become too fanatic Damn medievalism. __________________ An illusion--with intelligence! A malignant vision, with a will of pure evil!

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July 4 2009, 12:47 AM	#6
PKTrekGirl Arrogant Niner Thug Location: Anchorage, Alaska	Re: When People become too fanatic Agreed that anyone who commits suicide as a result of a celebrity death wasn't playing with a full deck to begin with. That said, there are plenty of imbalanced people out there, and there always has been. There are confirmed and documented reports of several women trying to commit suicide when Rudolph Valentino (arguably the first movie heart-throb) died unexpectedly in 1926. At least 2 women succeeded in offing themselves. So this phenomenon is nothing new. __________________ DS9 on DVD - Now 99.923% Borg-Free! Star Trek XI - "You know, if you have ten extra sombreros lying around, I have an idea on how to improve your current avatar..." - Samuel T. Cogley

July 4 2009, 10:41 AM	#8
RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Location: RJDiogenes of Boston	Re: When People become too fanatic I wonder about people like President Kennedy or Martin Luther King. I don't know of any stories, but I'm sure there must have been. __________________ Please stop by my Gallery and YouTube Page for a visit. And read Trunkards!

July 4 2009, 04:30 PM	#9
MikeNeko Lieutenant Location: Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind.	Re: When People become too fanatic Another great question. I do not remember anything like that being reported but then again the media was still quiet at that time. It wasn't until Nixon and Watergate that the media decided that politicians and actors were fair game and started reporting everything! I have to admire the Kennedy Family that they spread John Jr. ashes in the ocean, because they feared that if he had a grave, people would come there and "worship" him. I just wonder what the Jackson Family has planned? First it was Neverland (a West Coast version of Graceland?) which the state would not allow. Tuesday is the Memorial Service at Staples and then what? Where will he be buried and how much money is the Family going to make off of their "personal" suffering? Are they suddenly going to "decide" as a tribute to Michael, they will come together and out of their "kindness of their hearts" perform at the venues where Michael was suppose to perform at in honor to him for his fans? A lot of money to be made off of the dead. I apologize to those who can not get even of Elvis that they must do a pilgrimage to Graceland but it is the willingness to pay money that upsets me. I have visited Arlington Cemetary and seen JFK's grave. In Israel there is the Church of the Holy Sepulcher. Neither places charge money for one to show their love and respect of the dead. Living or gone I just think giving your life savings away because you are told it is for the "good" is a very bad idea. Choose your "Family" wisely.

July 4 2009, 04:37 PM	#10
barnaclelapse Commodore Location: Waverly, VA.	Re: When People become too fanatic If the death of Michael Jackson is enough to get you to kill yourself, then you were probably headed for disaster anyway. __________________ http://drunkmonkeys.onimpression.com/ www.mpjournal.com Tumblr: http://barnaclelapse.tumblr.com Word Press: http://gabrielricard.wordpress.com

July 6 2009, 06:00 PM	#13
freak Commodore Location: stationed at NCIS post Voyager.	Re: When People become too fanatic I can understand people really liking MJ and appreciating him for his music and career. However, I don't understand the fanatics surrounding his death. People think he's god or a god and literally worshipped the ground he walked on. I really respected him and loved his music but I did not worship him cause he himself had lots of problems, such as a lost childhood. I blame that on the parents! Anyway, it's just sad to see people taking their own lives cause of MJ's death. I wonder what would happen if William Shatner, heaven forbid, dies? I know I'll be heartbroken and crushed but I won't try to off myself because of it. All I'm gonna say is that this is a crazy, twisted world we're living in at the moment and it's gonna get worse before it ever gets better. __________________ She's a he, bonehead!!!!!

July 7 2009, 02:20 AM	#15
MikeNeko Lieutenant Location: Never think, for in though lies all the ills of mankind.	Re: When People become too fanatic The latest I heard is, there are actually locked off areas of Forest Lawn in LA and that is where he is going to end up. Again, the thought of people going up there and "joining" him scares the "bleep" out of me. Affection between couples is one thing. But the un-natural worshipping of many people to one is a "Family" that I choose not to be a part of. CULT CULT CULT