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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old July 8 2009, 01:03 PM   #46
Paris
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

^I really liked the total retcon of Enterprise's finale in TGTMD. I watched the show for its entire run, and really dug season 4 and all the shoutout's to fans of treklore. I just hated "These are the Voyages..." so much that I refused to watch it in my last rewatch of the show. But now that I've read TGTMD (just finished it last week ), I totally want to go back and watch TATV. It makes it so much easier to take. Thank dog for Martin & Mangels
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Old July 8 2009, 01:12 PM   #47
F. King Daniel
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

Paris wrote: View Post
^I really liked the total retcon of Enterprise's finale in TGTMD. I watched the show for its entire run, and really dug season 4 and all the shoutout's to fans of treklore. I just hated "These are the Voyages..." so much that I refused to watch it in my last rewatch of the show. But now that I've read TGTMD (just finished it last week ), I totally want to go back and watch TATV. It makes it so much easier to take. Thank dog for Martin & Mangels
I hated TATV when i first saw it. And the second time. And the third.

But then i saw it right after seeing the mighty Star Trek film, i thought it wasn't all that bad. Trip's death was basically suicide (which has great potential for meaningfull comment on our prozac nations. Wasted potential.), Riker was wearing a red parachute (his soldier scene as "the fat MACO" was unbelievable). But it really could have been worse. Maybe.

It could have been infinately better, too.
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Old July 8 2009, 01:30 PM   #48
Paris
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Paris wrote: View Post
^I really liked the total retcon of Enterprise's finale in TGTMD. I watched the show for its entire run, and really dug season 4 and all the shoutout's to fans of treklore. I just hated "These are the Voyages..." so much that I refused to watch it in my last rewatch of the show. But now that I've read TGTMD (just finished it last week ), I totally want to go back and watch TATV. It makes it so much easier to take. Thank dog for Martin & Mangels
I hated TATV when i first saw it. And the second time. And the third.

But then i saw it right after seeing the mighty Star Trek film, i thought it wasn't all that bad. Trip's death was basically suicide (which has great potential for meaningfull comment on our prozac nations. Wasted potential.), Riker was wearing a red parachute (his soldier scene as "the fat MACO" was unbelievable). But it really could have been worse. Maybe.

It could have been infinately better, too.
Having Riker and Troi show up and have the scene happen in the 7th season of TNG was ridiculous . Both of them had "expanded" beyond reasonable doubt, as people tend to do (no disrespect intended) when eleven years passes. Having them on the Titan would have made so much more sense. Just one of the myriad of problems with TATV. Berman & Braga probably didn't mean to, but they shit pretty hard on us fans with that episode . Especially after a decent fourth season...
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Old July 8 2009, 05:17 PM   #49
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

Agreed. Even though you could tell they were really trying, there was just no that I could buy that the Riker/Troi stuff actually took place during TNG's series run. They've just aged way to much to make that at all plausable.
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Old July 8 2009, 06:28 PM   #50
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

I've been away for a few days and only just discovered this thread upon my return, so I apologise if this has been mentioned already:

I think it's often a matter of age and experience. I myself am a big continuity fan and I find the modern inter-connected, largely unified Trek lit universe very pleasing. I do dislike books that contradict other books, because my personal Trek universe has always been unified. That is to say, I grew up with canon and 21st century Trek lit. For older fans who have been exposed to a far wider range of Trek tie-ins, continuity did not exist, or not to the same levels, so their love of Trek grew out of other factors, rather than relying in part on the "big story" aspects. My continuity-mania would not be sustainable or logical outside of my rather limited experience of Trek. I personally love continuity, yet contradictions can be "fixed" by later stories, and there's nothing more interesting than thinking up theories to reconcile different interpretations. Also, I'm aware the modern books often recycle elements from earlier works wherever possible, and this can lead to the new stories taking on extra complexity. The Romulans in books today are essentially a combination of TNG-TV Romulans and Rihannsu, and these different sources lead to their being very complex. So, my vote is, as much continuity and unity as possible, but inflexibility also means we miss out on some very interesting interpretations and story-telling.
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Old July 8 2009, 06:47 PM   #51
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

Aaaaand the NASAT is finally here!
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Old July 8 2009, 06:50 PM   #52
Deranged Nasat
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

rahullak wrote: View Post
Aaaaand the NASAT is finally here!
Thanks! I've been away a few days without a computer, or I'd have been leaping all over this thread from the start!
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Old July 8 2009, 07:08 PM   #53
Paris
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

^We were worried dude! Don't do that again
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Old July 8 2009, 08:44 PM   #54
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
I've been away for a few days and only just discovered this thread upon my return, so I apologise if this has been mentioned already:

I think it's often a matter of age and experience. I myself am a big continuity fan and I find the modern inter-connected, largely unified Trek lit universe very pleasing. I do dislike books that contradict other books, because my personal Trek universe has always been unified. That is to say, I grew up with canon and 21st century Trek lit. For older fans who have been exposed to a far wider range of Trek tie-ins, continuity did not exist, or not to the same levels, so their love of Trek grew out of other factors, rather than relying in part on the "big story" aspects. My continuity-mania would not be sustainable or logical outside of my rather limited experience of Trek. I personally love continuity, yet contradictions can be "fixed" by later stories, and there's nothing more interesting than thinking up theories to reconcile different interpretations. Also, I'm aware the modern books often recycle elements from earlier works wherever possible, and this can lead to the new stories taking on extra complexity. The Romulans in books today are essentially a combination of TNG-TV Romulans and Rihannsu, and these different sources lead to their being very complex. So, my vote is, as much continuity and unity as possible, but inflexibility also means we miss out on some very interesting interpretations and story-telling.
I confess to being of that earlier group that lived fast and loose with continuity. And having sometimes ignored the TNG-era changes.
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Old July 8 2009, 08:58 PM   #55
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

JD wrote: View Post
Agreed. Even though you could tell they were really trying, there was just no that I could buy that the Riker/Troi stuff actually took place during TNG's series run. They've just aged way to much to make that at all plausable.
the biggest problems i had with Riker and Troi's scenes were the fact that he was acting so completely out of character (Riker needs to spend hours fucking around on the holodeck to decide to tell Picard what happened with the Pegasus? do me a favour!) and that it was pretty frigging pointless. the episode could've been done without their scenes in and would've been twice as good. (but still shit. 2 X Shit = Shit)

i also hated the way Shran was treated ('the Andorian'?! HE'S THE GUY WHO MADE FIRST CONTACT WITH HUMANS, NEGOTIATED FOR PEACE ON WAYTAHN AND HELPED DEFEAT THE XINDI!!!!) and turned into a jewel thief?!

and that's without the mysterious disappearance of every security guard and MACO that leds to Trip's stupid suicide move. AND the completely pointless bridge redesign, added patches on the uniforms and absence of anything to do with the Romulan War.

so, yeah, i think TATV was a complete clusterfuck.
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Old July 8 2009, 09:07 PM   #56
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

I don't really follow current Trek fiction, other than the general outlines to see what's currently "going on." However, I do love to go back and pick up a book knowing it will contradict with what will be produced. Final Frontier or The First Adventure, for example. It is fun to see other takes (for that same reason, I want to find Federation, but haven't gotten around to it yet).

Lonemagpie wrote: View Post
Of course, the Temporal Cold War is your one-size-fits-all answer to inconsistencies
I thought that was recently replaced with "Alternate Timeline"?

William Leisner wrote: View Post
And unfortunately, shit like that is going to happen. Sorry, but the authors and editors are only human.
Unless they write for filmed Trek. If they make a mistake then, we fans must call for blood and demand they are fired!

Christopher wrote: View Post
By the same token, shouldn't all of Star Trek be "ruined" for you because it contradicts real life?
Pfft...everyone knows that real life is just one big CANON VIOLATION!

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
i also hated the way Shran was treated ('the Andorian'?! HE'S THE GUY WHO MADE FIRST CONTACT WITH HUMANS, NEGOTIATED FOR PEACE ON WAYTAHN AND HELPED DEFEAT THE XINDI!!!!) and turned into a jewel thief?!
TATV is seriously flawed, but Shran wasn't a jewel thief. He specifically said that he never had the the item that the bad guys were after.
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Old July 8 2009, 09:12 PM   #57
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

yeah, but it came across to me that we're supposed to think he's lying.

i dunno, haven't seen it since it aired on Sky One back in the day.
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Old July 8 2009, 10:46 PM   #58
Broccoli
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
yeah, but it came across to me that we're supposed to think he's lying.

i dunno, haven't seen it since it aired on Sky One back in the day.
Really? I never got that impression.
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Old July 9 2009, 03:43 AM   #59
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

I'm not much bothered by little contradictions if I like the book and the story is strong. For exampl: in :"Sarek", Spock is conceived in the "usual" way, whilst Sarek undergoes pon farr - in "Spock's World", he is conceived through genettic engineering by Vulcan's premier geneticists (which seems far more likely to me, given the physiologocal differences between humans and Vulcans). But it hardly puts my knickers in a knot.

Sometimes I like purposeful errors - D C Fontanna and I like to pretend Sybok never existed, I have no problem excising him from my Trek universe whatsoever.

And I simply don't worry about date errors and other discrepancies in older books, such as Strangers In The Sky or the Rihannsu novels - they're wonderful books, written before the movies and TV series treated similar subjects - my brain snf the Trekverse can accommodate both.

OTOH, I have been less than pleased by some later TV series treatment of characters (Tripp's death in the final ep of Enterprise, Sarek's Death in TNG) so I simply choose to ignore the things that annoy me.
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Old July 9 2009, 03:15 PM   #60
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Re: Do continuity errors/contradictions in TrekLit bother you?

They errors I do not like, is when the books completely ignore something on screen. Such as the aforementioned Ship of the Line.
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