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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old July 2 2009, 01:42 AM   #31
Chaos Descending
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Davros wrote: View Post
Not when he first showed up.
There had to be a first time. Besides, for those who follow the novels, even the novels suggest that the War Chief survived the events of The War Games.

Davros wrote:
Since the War Chief was directly tied to the events resulting in the Doctor's exile on Earth it only makes sense that he or the Doctor would have mentioned the connection at some point.
It could also have made sense to mention that the Master was in the academy with the Doctor, but no mention was made of that either. There is no reason that The War Games MUST have been mentioned specifically.

Davros wrote:
The Doctor and the War Chief were never old friends.
So you don't think that the phrase "an old friend" was meant ironically? I don't recall any mention of the Master being the Doctor's actual friend until Frontier in Space. Even Khan Noonian Singh calls Kirk "old friend". Does that mean that they were once drinking buddies?
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Old July 2 2009, 01:47 AM   #32
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Chaos Descending wrote: View Post
Davros wrote: View Post
Not when he first showed up.
There had to be a first time. Besides, for those who follow the novels, even the novels suggest that the War Chief survived the events of The War Games.
Not the novelization of War Games, and that is the only one that is canon.
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Old July 2 2009, 01:51 AM   #33
Chaos Descending
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Davros wrote: View Post
Chaos Descending wrote: View Post
Davros wrote: View Post
Not when he first showed up.
There had to be a first time. Besides, for those who follow the novels, even the novels suggest that the War Chief survived the events of The War Games.
Not the novelization of War Games, and that is the only one that is canon.
Novelizations of episodes are not canon either.

But then, don't try to tell Lance Parkin that the books don't count.
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Old July 2 2009, 02:43 AM   #34
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Chaos Descending wrote: View Post
Davros wrote: View Post
Chaos Descending wrote: View Post

There had to be a first time. Besides, for those who follow the novels, even the novels suggest that the War Chief survived the events of The War Games.
Not the novelization of War Games, and that is the only one that is canon.
Novelizations of episodes are not canon either.

But then, don't try to tell Lance Parkin that the books don't count.
I know I don't count any of that faction paradox nonsense. All those books were horrible, as was the idea of Compassion becoming the Tardis.
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Old July 2 2009, 06:29 PM   #35
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Well, either way they're still two different people, 'cause the book that features the War Chief makes it pretty clear that he's not the Master (and again, this particular book was written by Terrance Dicks, who created or co-created both characters). Another book, the excellent The Dark Path (written by Trek BBS's own lonemagpie), tells the story of a Troughton-era Master and makes it pretty darn unlikely that the Master and the War Chief were one and the same.
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Old July 2 2009, 08:08 PM   #36
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Chaos Descending wrote: View Post
Davros wrote:
Since the War Chief was directly tied to the events resulting in the Doctor's exile on Earth it only makes sense that he or the Doctor would have mentioned the connection at some point.
It could also have made sense to mention that the Master was in the academy with the Doctor, but no mention was made of that either.
That tidbit does come out (more or less) in The Sea Devils, which is still relatively early in the Master's history on the show. I believe the Doctor's line is something like, "You might say we were at school together." While the Doctor is giving out tidbits like this to describe his past history with the Master, it would seem logical for some sort of War Games reference to come up as well, if the Master was indeed the War Chief.
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Old July 2 2009, 09:22 PM   #37
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

The Doctor is The Master.
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Old July 3 2009, 01:25 AM   #38
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

I think Jenny is the Master.
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Old July 3 2009, 02:27 AM   #39
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
The wrote: View Post
So, the character isn't owned by the BBC?
Lots of Doctor Who characters and concepts aren't owned by the BBC. Copyright works differently in the UK than it does in the US.

When you write a Star Trek story, all the toys from every episode are in the box for you to use, because Paramount owns it all, lock stock and barrel. When you write a Doctor Who story, there are things that are off-limits because the BBC doesn't have free rein to use them.

Emh wrote: View Post
Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
I've no doubt that BBC Wales can pony up a lot more money than Big Finish can. If RTD wants to use the Monk, it would happen.
And just like that, the rumors return to life!

In all seriousness, I would love to see the Monk return, Patrick Stewart or not.
From what I'm given to understand by several UK sources, Timothy Dalton is portraying the character that Stewart would have played in the specials. Dalton's schedule was free, while Stewart was booked for Waiting for Godot with Sir Ian McKellan.

I tend to doubt that character is the Monk.
From what I've heard, he's playing the Chancellor of the High Council. I've seen one picture in Time Lord robes, which oddly look a bit like Omega's robes from Arc of Infinity to me. Who knows...pun intended...but it does seem that the Time Lords are back after all, or at least one of them.
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Old June 25 2013, 02:32 AM   #40
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

I think they're the same guy. I mean, it'd make sense for the Master to be mad at the Doctor, if the events of The War Games brought about both his discovery by the Time Lords and probably his last "natural" regeneration.

And remember, the first couple of years of Pertwee's run weren't exactly continuity-proof-seeking. They were effectively retooling the series, without bothering to establish firm references to the past - thus no Jamie/Zoe references in Pertwee's first serial.
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Old June 25 2013, 02:52 AM   #41
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Why can't the War Chief be the Valyard? He tried to go back in time to wipe out the Timelords.
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Old June 25 2013, 02:55 AM   #42
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

Emh wrote: View Post
I think part of it comes from the fact that in The War Games The Doctor doesn't seem to know or recognize The War Chief as anyone beyond being a Time Lord, whereas it's established during The Third Doctor era (particularly in Terror of the Autons and The Sea Devils) that The Doctor has known The Master for a long time.
And can't Time Lords recognize each other across regenerations?

AFAIK, the War Chief was indeed a classmate of the Doctor's: on Gallifrey, they were part of an elite academic team called the 'Deca', and the WC was known as Magnus. The Deca also included the Rani, the Master, and the Monk.
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Old June 25 2013, 02:56 AM   #43
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

(double post)
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"Spock...?" Kirk said, whispering.
"I am... most pleased to see again, Captain" Spock formally replied.
McCoy shook his head in disgust. "Oh, for crying out loud, Spock. Its been eighty years!"
"Seventy eight point four years, Doctor."

The Holy Three meet again, in The Return
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Old June 25 2013, 02:58 AM   #44
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

timelord1010 wrote: View Post
Why can't the War Chief be the Valyard? He tried to go back in time to wipe out the Timelords.
I don't think so. The War Chief is never particularly interested in gaining anything from the Doctor, but rather desires his alliance. Not entirely un-Master-like, especially if you consider how the Tenth Doctor and the Simms Master are rather sentimental towards one another.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Emh wrote: View Post
I think part of it comes from the fact that in The War Games The Doctor doesn't seem to know or recognize The War Chief as anyone beyond being a Time Lord, whereas it's established during The Third Doctor era (particularly in Terror of the Autons and The Sea Devils) that The Doctor has known The Master for a long time.
And can't Time Lords recognize each other across regenerations?
The War Chief does recognize The Doctor, though. And The Doctor's "I have nothing to say to you" might indicate a possible history between them - and considering the comics themselves explored the era, albeit without the connection this thread seeks, its not entirely out of the question.

Also, The Doctor doesn't recognize The Master at first, when speaking to him on the telephone.
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"Spock...?" Kirk said, whispering.
"I am... most pleased to see again, Captain" Spock formally replied.
McCoy shook his head in disgust. "Oh, for crying out loud, Spock. Its been eighty years!"
"Seventy eight point four years, Doctor."

The Holy Three meet again, in The Return
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Old June 25 2013, 03:04 AM   #45
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Re: The Master and The War Chief - Why can't they be the same guy?

I saw Pertwee - Davison (And maybe further?) before seeing The War Games, and I missed a few episodes of The War Games. So, I did at first believe they were, or could be, the same Time Lord.

But seeing it in it's entirity and them not knowing each other personally I dismissed the thought
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