RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,603
Posts: 5,424,991
Members: 24,805
Currently online: 456
Newest member: David Ellerman

TrekToday headlines

September Loot Crate Features Trek Surprise
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

USS Enterprise Miniature Out For Refit
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Comic Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Trek 3 Shooting Next Spring?
By: T'Bonz on Sep 16

Star Trek: Alien Domain Game Announced
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Red Shirt Diaries Episode Three
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Made Out Of Mudd Photonovel
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Takei Has Growth Removed
By: T'Bonz on Sep 15

Retro Review: Tears of the Prophets
By: Michelle on Sep 12

New Wizkids Attack Wing Ships
By: T'Bonz on Sep 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old October 18 2010, 02:11 AM   #1
Cadet49
Lieutenant Commander
 
Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

Sorry if someone has already posted this idea ... it's hard to keep track of all the threads as a casual visitor to this forum.

Is it possible that the red matter spacial anomaly, in interaction with the very unusual Hobus supernova, somehow "shattered" the space-time continuum, making linear time travel within a single temporal universe (as we saw in ST IV and FC) impossible? Now, traveling through time only results in a new temporal universe that branches off...

I've heard a lot of fans gripe that Spock Prime should use his knowledge of time travel to travel back in time to prevent Nero from destroying the Kelvin or Vulcan... maybe he was visited by a being who travels through space-time and between dimensions, like Q or a certain "Doctor" of another reality , who informed him that linear time travel is no longer possible?

Spock could go back in time and stop Nero, but in this current reality he is in, Vulcan, the Kelvin, and his mother would still be gone...

Perhaps this "interdimensional traveller" even had the good sense to return Spock Prime to his own reality, since we hear his voice in Star Trek Online! That would also resolve the "Spock Prime knows the future" paradox!
Cadet49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18 2010, 10:06 AM   #2
King Daniel Into Darkness
Admiral
 
King Daniel Into Darkness's Avatar
 
Location: England again
Re: Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

I like to think that Star Trek time travellers are a bit clueless, and don't really know what happens. It could be that all those trips created near-identical alternate universes, or maybe that Nero and Spock erased TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY from history. Time travel in Trek has been portrayed in so many incompatible (and often nonsensical) ways, saying "Temporal mechanics is beyond the understanding of us viewers" is probably the best way to explain it all.

The time travel in the movie itself is really no different from that in many other Treks, like "Endgame". People go back in time and alter history - the only difference is that this time the writers claim that timelines can't be destroyed, only new ones created. In the movie itself, the bridge crew realize that history's unfolding in a way other than it should - an "alternate reality" - but they keep it vague, leaving the fate of classic Trek ultimately up to the viewer.

Isn't there loads of time travel in STO? Maybe you're not in the STO you left!
__________________
Star Trek Imponderables, fun mashups of Trek's biggest continuity errors! Ep1, Ep2 and Ep3
King Daniel Into Darkness is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18 2010, 05:45 PM   #3
Hartzilla2007
Vice Admiral
 
Hartzilla2007's Avatar
 
Location: Star Trekkin Across the universe.
Re: Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Isn't there loads of time travel in STO? Maybe you're not in the STO you left!
Well so far you only travel back in time 3 times.
Hartzilla2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 18 2010, 07:59 PM   #4
Gojira
Commodore
 
Gojira's Avatar
 
Location: Stompin' on Tokyo
Re: Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
<snip> It could be that all those trips created near-identical alternate universes, or maybe that Nero and Spock erased TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY from history. Time travel in Trek has been portrayed in so many incompatible (and often nonsensical) ways, saying "Temporal mechanics is beyond the understanding of us viewers" is probably the best way to explain it all.

The time travel in the movie itself is really no different from that in many other Treks, like "Endgame". People go back in time and alter history - the only difference is that this time the writers claim that timelines can't be destroyed, only new ones created. In the movie itself, the bridge crew realize that history's unfolding in a way other than it should - an "alternate reality" - but they keep it vague, leaving the fate of classic Trek ultimately up to the viewer.
I was so passionately on the bandwagon that Nero and Spock erased TOS/TNG/DS9/VOY from history. But now I have mellowed out quite a bit about it and realize that it doesn't matter how one views the time travel in this movie. There are good sound arguments on both sides of the issue.

We'll just have to take a wait and see approach to how it is handled. This next movie can shed light on whether or not the old time line continues on or that it doesn't. Or they may never resolve it. But the point is that someday a writer can revisit the original time line/universe so in science fiction no death is permanent even the death of time lines. They can always be brought back to life.
__________________
My Science Fiction-Fantasy movie review Blog: http://foleyfunfilmfacts.wordpress.com/
Gojira is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19 2010, 03:15 AM   #5
Destructor
Commodore
 
Destructor's Avatar
 
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Re: Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

Space Therapist wrote: View Post
This next movie can shed light on whether or not the old time line continues on or that it doesn't. Or they may never resolve it.
It won't be mentioned in the new film.
Destructor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19 2010, 07:43 AM   #6
Mr. Laser Beam
Fleet Admiral
 
Mr. Laser Beam's Avatar
 
Location: The visitor's bullpen
View Mr. Laser Beam's Twitter Profile
Re: Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

If "STO" is a reference to Star Trek Online, then yes, it is pretty much a given that the classic Trek timeline continues. Because there is a scene in the comic Countdown, which is part of the STO continuity, in which Nero and Spock vanish into the past, but the reality of the timeline continues even after they're gone.

Also, the mere fact that the classic Trek timeline is still written in novels, is all the evidence we will need *and* all we will ever get. I know novels aren't canon, but obviously they will be the only 'prime universe' Trek material we will ever see again. If they exist, then so does the timeline written about in them.
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Mr. Laser Beam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 19 2010, 08:12 AM   #7
DrTaylor
Lieutenant Commander
 
DrTaylor's Avatar
 
Location: Raxocorocophalvatorious
Send a message via AIM to DrTaylor Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to DrTaylor
Re: Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

You're right. It would work for Spock Prime to try to "fix" things, but there's a good reason why he can't - besides Nimoy's retirement, I mean. The movie was made to fix things - the damage that we all know was done by people we've been bashing for the last ten years or so. We can't have it both ways - either we get the old timeline back, and all the hurt that's brought with it, or we embrace the new one and hope for a better future. The hard part is accepting that it's either one or the other.
DrTaylor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2010, 03:48 AM   #8
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

I've heard a lot of fans gripe that Spock Prime should use his knowledge of time travel to travel back in time to prevent Nero from destroying the Kelvin or Vulcan...
If you mean the knowledge he got in this movie, he didn't get any knowledge of time travel in a single reality. He got knowledge of how to time travel between realities. He could go to a different universe and try to save the Kelvin or Vulcan, or even Romulus, but who's to say they need saving in that reality?

If you mean the knowledge that all the Trek characters had in previous movies and TV shows, well, that's not a new problem.
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2010, 05:00 AM   #9
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Centrelea, Nova Scotia
Re: Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

All he has to do is go back in time to Montana in 2063 and hitch a ride back with the Enterprise E. He'll then have years to solve the Hobus problem and keep Nero from going all nutbar.
kkozoriz1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2010, 10:16 AM   #10
ST-One
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Germany - with UHC since the early 1900s
Re: Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post
All he has to do is go back in time to Montana in 2063 and hitch a ride back with the Enterprise E. He'll then have years to solve the Hobus problem and keep Nero from going all nutbar.
And how is he supposed to know about that?
ST-One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2010, 05:54 PM   #11
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Centrelea, Nova Scotia
Re: Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

He's Spock. He knows everything.

OK, how about he foes back to Earth in 1968 and hitches a ride back after Tomorrow is Yesterday? Better?

If the NuUniverse branched off the old one, he CAN get back. If they don't share a common past then he's stuck until he can get a dimensional transport.
kkozoriz1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2010, 06:26 PM   #12
ST-One
Vice Admiral
 
Location: Germany - with UHC since the early 1900s
Re: Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post
He's Spock. He knows everything.

OK, how about he foes back to Earth in 1968 and hitches a ride back after Tomorrow is Yesterday? Better?
No.
ST-One is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2010, 06:33 PM   #13
JarodRussell
Vice Admiral
 
JarodRussell's Avatar
 
Re: Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

ST-One wrote: View Post
kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post
He's Spock. He knows everything.

OK, how about he foes back to Earth in 1968 and hitches a ride back after Tomorrow is Yesterday? Better?
No.
Yes!
JarodRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 24 2010, 10:37 PM   #14
UFO
Captain
 
UFO's Avatar
 
Re: Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

kkozoriz1 wrote: View Post
He's Spock. He knows everything.

OK, how about he foes back to Earth in 1968 and hitches a ride back after Tomorrow is Yesterday? Better?

If the NuUniverse branched off the old one, he CAN get back. If they don't share a common past then he's stuck until he can get a dimensional transport.

Are you guys forgetting that going back in time will just split off another universe so whoever he hitches a ride with won't get him back to the prime universe, or am I missing something? Actually it's kind of hard to figure out if there even IS a prime universe. I mean with all the branching going for whatever reason, is the prime universe the one where event A or event B happens? Even a "dimensional transport" might just create another universe when you arrive at the existing reality!

Put another way: "Your new time travel gimmick sir. Would you like a can of worms to go with that?"

I suppose it would solve such problems if some methods of time travel circumvented the normal tendency of universe branching while others didn't. But that's just speculation, and not as much "fun".
UFO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 25 2010, 01:22 AM   #15
kkozoriz1
Fleet Captain
 
Location: Centrelea, Nova Scotia
Re: Did Nero "break" the Space-Time Continnum?

Red matter apparently causes a split. There's a number of ways that allow you to travel back and back to the future <g> without splitting off a new universe. Slingshot around the sun for instance. All Spock has to do is travel back to before Nero's arrival and then slingshot forward to the 24th century again. The Prime and Nu Universes share a common past.
kkozoriz1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:16 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.