RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,921
Posts: 5,478,486
Members: 25,052
Currently online: 677
Newest member: johnclever25

TrekToday headlines

Trek Shirt And Hoodie
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

A Klingon Christmas Carol’s Last Season
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

Attack Wing Wave 10 Expansion Pack
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Trek Actors In War Of The Worlds Fundraiser
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25

Star Trek: The Next Generation Gag Reel Tease
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24

Shatner In Haven
By: T'Bonz on Nov 24


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science and Technology

Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 25 2009, 04:00 PM   #31
Daedalus12
Rear Admiral
 
Daedalus12's Avatar
 
Location: South West France!
Re: manned Mission to Mars discussion

Well the basic conclusion of the paper is that a reasonably sized magnetic based shielding system that you can fit a small spacecraft heading for Mars would be useless against HZE.
__________________
"Bennett & Meyer are obviously the Ceti Eels introduced into the collective brain of Trekdom, leading to easy manipulation (TWOK), impaired cognitive functionality (TSFS), drooling (TVH), agonized death (TFF) and extended post-mortem twitching (TUC).
Daedalus12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2009, 04:04 PM   #32
SilentP
Commodore
 
SilentP's Avatar
 
Location: is in a very lonely Corner of the Circle
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to SilentP
Re: manned Mission to Mars discussion

Daedalus12 wrote: View Post
Well the basic conclusion of the paper is that a reasonably sized magnetic based shielding system that you can fit a small spacecraft heading for Mars would be useless against HZE.
Well that sucks balls

I don't suppose grasping at straws by asking how 'small' is small would do any good?
SilentP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2009, 04:23 PM   #33
Daedalus12
Rear Admiral
 
Daedalus12's Avatar
 
Location: South West France!
Re: manned Mission to Mars discussion

Well here is the second page. Small as in not something on order of a large space habitat i.e. think of launching something like the ISS to Mars.

__________________
"Bennett & Meyer are obviously the Ceti Eels introduced into the collective brain of Trekdom, leading to easy manipulation (TWOK), impaired cognitive functionality (TSFS), drooling (TVH), agonized death (TFF) and extended post-mortem twitching (TUC).
Daedalus12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2009, 05:00 PM   #34
Daedalus12
Rear Admiral
 
Daedalus12's Avatar
 
Location: South West France!
Re: manned Mission to Mars discussion

Don't get me wrong guys. I am just very confident that all other challenges like better propulsion, more accurate landing system and ISRU, etc can be solved more easily because they are purely engineering challenges unlike the radiation risk which will probably involve quite a bit of non-technical subjective judgments. By that account I am actually an optimist for a manned mars mission.
__________________
"Bennett & Meyer are obviously the Ceti Eels introduced into the collective brain of Trekdom, leading to easy manipulation (TWOK), impaired cognitive functionality (TSFS), drooling (TVH), agonized death (TFF) and extended post-mortem twitching (TUC).
Daedalus12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 25 2009, 10:16 PM   #35
noknowes
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: manned Mission to Mars discussion

SilentP wrote: View Post
noknowes wrote: View Post
The figure for 2 trillion is correct.Have you heard of cost over runs?
Yes, people know of cost over runs, however, just a blanket statement of 2 trillion being the end correct cost isn't viable, since nothing has been attempted at all. Would you like to show how you got to a figure of 2 trillion? Calculations with sources, please.
Previous studies have shown cost over run ratios of between at least 3 to 10.The figure i gave is the weighted average of these.

Study date used included the Osprey,the F22,the ISS,Apollo program,Star Wars missile defence and the Abrams tank as well as the wait for it..The Space Shuttle Turkey!

Also you have not even taken into account INFLATION and technical difficulties.So my figure of $2 trillion is not exagerration but conservative.

The people who pulled the $450 billion got it from their ass as no way in hell is that enough.It is simply a ruse to get funding.
noknowes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2009, 12:41 PM   #36
Urge
Lieutenant Commander
 
Urge's Avatar
 
Location: Norway
Re: manned Mission to Mars discussion

No new technology, no competition in the form of a Sovjet-block or something else that creates a space-race.....

Im sceptical. Im not sure if we will even make it back to the moon. The human race has deteriorated and become more silly and more stupid since the 1960s.
Urge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 26 2009, 02:12 PM   #37
jefferiestubes8
Commodore
 
Location: New York City
manned Mission to Mars discussion

chardman wrote: View Post
The only stumbling block you've alluded to, which I believe has any real merit, is the political aspect of funding the mission.
There is now a thread on the funding/politics of funding of a manned mission to Mars (and Moon).
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?p=3126285
jefferiestubes8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29 2009, 05:36 PM   #38
jefferiestubes8
Commodore
 
Location: New York City
Re: manned Mission to Mars discussion

Is Hypersleep/stasis/ hibernation technology from

Alien (1979) for a long flight a real possibility in the next 25 years?

In the Star Trek Universe, people are occasionally put into "stasis", but it appears to be a biological suspended animation
Used in the episode Space Seed on the S.S. Botany Bay.
the ship is a sleeper ship, designed for long periods of interplanetary travel.
Frank Herbert uses the more creative and descriptive term 'null-entropy bins' in his Dune universe. They seem to be used exclusively for long-term storage and preservation of non-living goods
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasis_(fiction)

"2010: The Year We Make Contact" (1984) [called cryosleep] shows it.

Supernova (2000/I), Event Horizon (1997), and Aliens (1986) films and the Half-Life videogame all use it.

Event Horizon mentions it is also for protecting the body from major G-forces and I believe they call it a "grav-couch" or maybe that was Supernova.

While they wake up as if from regular sleep in Aliens it looks unrealistic.
2010 and Event Horizon really show a realistic-looking awakening effects on the human body from the stasis. A nice touch.

As far as work going on now about it I bring up these two articles:
Hibernation Method Tested for Space Travel
April 4,2008

Hibernation and Space Travel: Science Fiction or Science Reality?

Do we really need 8 months of food/water/waste water management/oxygen? Could these stasis chambers have enough shielding for radiation too? Computer-controlled to open during wakeup procedure?
jefferiestubes8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29 2009, 08:26 PM   #39
sojourner
Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: manned Mission to Mars discussion

^That's the same article posted on 2 different sites.

I am not sure it is possible in the next 25 years, maybe the next 50 though. Why shield the individual stasis chambers? Just shield the room they are in.
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1 2009, 02:52 PM   #40
jefferiestubes8
Commodore
 
Location: New York City
Re: manned Mission to Mars discussion

check out this forum of for a manned mission to Mars
http://www.newmars.com/forums/viewfo...88601876d0189b

it has 8 subforums of all the major topics.
jefferiestubes8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 1 2009, 03:52 PM   #41
jefferiestubes8
Commodore
 
Location: New York City
manned mission to Phobos [moon of Mars]

NASA legend Buzz Aldrin, the second person to ever walk on the moon, believes the U.S. space agency should focus more on heading to Mars, rather than going back to the moon. Aldrin said the current race to get back to the moon -- spearheaded by NASA, China, Russia, and JAXA -- is nothing but a "glorified rehash of what we did 40 years ago."

Instead of returning to the moon in 2020 and setting up a possible lunar research post, Aldrin suggest it should be used simply as a staging area for a mission to the Martian moon Phobos.
July 1, 2009 SOURCE
A mission to a moon of Mars?
Here is the relevant info:
Phobos has also been proposed [in 1993-1997] as an early target for a Manned mission to Mars, since a landing on Phobos would be considerably less difficult (and hence, much less expensive) than a landing on the surface of Mars itself. A lander bound for Mars would need to be capable of atmospheric entry and subsequent in-situ return to orbit without any support facilities (a capacity which has never been attempted in a manned spacecraft of human design), or would require the creation of support facilities in-situ (a "colony or bust" mission), while a lander intended for Phobos could be based on equipment designed for lunar and asteroid landings.


Spectroscopically it appears to be similar to the D-type asteroids,
it is known to have significant porosity. These results led to the suggestion that Phobos might contain a substantial reservoir of ice. Spectral observations indicate that the surface regolith layer lacks hydration,but ice below the regolith is not ruled out.

The Russian Space Agency is planning to launch a sample return mission to Phobos in 2009, called Phobos-Grunt. The return capsule will include a life science experiment of The Planetary Society, called Living Interplanetary Flight Experiment, or LIFE. A second contributor to this mission is China with a surveying satellite called "Yinghuo-1" that will be released in the orbit of Mars, and a soil grinding and sieving system for the scientific payload of the Phobos lander.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobos_(moon)

Not a terrible idea. Let's see where the sample return mission Phobos-Grunt and Yinghuo-1 survey lead us...
jefferiestubes8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 6 2009, 10:43 PM   #42
Urge
Lieutenant Commander
 
Urge's Avatar
 
Location: Norway
Re: manned Mission to Mars discussion

If you are landing on Phobos, it might be just as good to just stay in orbit. Its no point in digging into a big rock just in order to digg into a big rock. Being on Mars on the other hand, might be slightly better then space since it has good shielding against radiation - at least down in the valleys where the atmosphere-ponds are.
Urge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7 2009, 02:59 AM   #43
sojourner
Admiral
 
sojourner's Avatar
 
Location: I'm at WKRP
Re: manned Mission to Mars discussion

Those "atmosphere ponds" are still very good vacuums by earth standards and would not provide any more appreciable radiation shielding.

The argument for missions to Phobos are from a logistics standpoint. It has no gravity to speak of so can be easily "landed" on or docked with. It is thought to have a large amount of water ice for a core making it a natural fuel depo. Being virtually weightless would make it easy to create a radiation shielded structure. Once you have a decent base worked up, you can then explore mars at your leisure with a safe haven in orbit.
__________________
Baby, you and me were never meant to be, just maybe think of me once in a while...
sojourner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7 2009, 03:52 AM   #44
MANT!
Rear Admiral
 
MANT!'s Avatar
 
Location: Mare Island Naval Shipyard
Re: manned Mission to Mars discussion

Scientists have proposed a Manned Mars mission since the 1950s..
Chemical, Nuclear and Ion propulsion systems have been studied..and with all this research, http://www.astronautix.com/craftfam/martions.htm

I think that the final problems such as radiation and the like can be solved..some of the studies in the article included putting water or fuel in tanks around the crew compartment to shield against much of the radiation..limited lead lined shelter rooms were also proposed for solar flares and other such hazards.. Perhaps a combination of methods will be used..similar to Earth in that the planet uses several methods to protect life from radiation.

The answers to these and the other questions would create a quantum leap in technology, such as that leap that followed the Apollo project in terms of energy useage, signals, insulation, power generation and delivery, light-weight structures, software,hardware and many more..this is an investment in America's future and one we shouldn't walk away from because it's "hard"...
__________________
Ryan Ladson Geddings 03-06-1989 to 11-27-2013
Requiescat in pace
MANT! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 7 2009, 06:46 AM   #45
SilentP
Commodore
 
SilentP's Avatar
 
Location: is in a very lonely Corner of the Circle
Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to SilentP
Re: manned Mission to Mars discussion

goldbug wrote: View Post
The answers to these and the other questions would create a quantum leap in technology, such as that leap that followed the Apollo project in terms of energy useage, signals, insulation, power generation and delivery, light-weight structures, software,hardware and many more..this is an investment in America's future and one we shouldn't walk away from because it's "hard"...
Bolded for emphasis, as it's a near QFT. It's not just an investment for America but the entire species.
SilentP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:35 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.