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Old September 18 2009, 07:31 PM   #1
CuttingEdge100
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Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

I was thinking about the Klingon Bird of Prey and what it would have been like if it was designed in a more practical way.

Here's what I was thinking of.

1.) No huge gigantic guns on the wingtips. There are many other places to put guns, and for the size of those things they are apparently not as powerful as a constitution-class's gun which is a small dome-shape turret. The D-7 also has smaller gun-mounts

2.) Put nacelles on the wing-tips. It makes sense and most other warp-capable ships in Star Trek whether they be Federation, Klingon, or Romulan tend to have nacelles.

3.) Revise folding-wings. They only need to fold up a bit for planetary landings. Folding them down for gunnery purposes is useless. Moving the wings down actually places the disruptors further down below the height of the bridge which makes aiming harder. If the wings are level, they are closer to the position of the bridge. It should also be noted that basic computers can predict where the phaser/disruptor blasts will land.

4.) Make the wings thicker, the proportional thicknesses should be about 4 or 5 times thicker at it's thickest, and it would be pretty cool to see the wing be thinner at the front and back than in the middle and have even a look that is remotely aerodynamic.

5.) The gigantic torpedo-launcher tube could instead be made into a navigational deflector. You could still have a typical federation-sized torpedo-hole in the middle for firing torpedoes although I'd prefer to use a circular tube. The idea of the Klingon's being more utilitarian and using cylindrical torpedoes seems to make sense.

6.) Way smaller impulse engines. Engines should be proportionately around the same as the K'Tinga if not smaller. I have nothing against them being close together, but I'd prefer two engines

7.) Waaaay less surface detail. Somewhere between the D-7 and K'Tinga I'd say. Somewhat smooth with some visible deflector gridding. It doesn't need anything more than that. Get rid of those stupid metal grilling/fins in which the wing folds on, I think it's really stupid to have a ship that looks like it has trapezius muscles. Smooth most of that out and stuff. Also the "chin-guard" -- the red wiring around the bridge, get rid of that and give the head of the ship a chine like the Excelsior class refit. Much cleaner lines you see.

8.) Get rid of the heavy green paint-job and go with either greenish-grays or grays more like the D-7 and K'Tinga are painted. Having that red bird on the underside is also pointless. While the plot said it was originally supposed to be a Romulan ship that was stolen, that was removed from the plot, and it was said to be a Klingon ship and just a Klingon ship.

9.) Call the ship a "Scout". While both non-canon and canon retconning has post ST:III written Klingon Bird of Prey's into the timeline -- originally only the Romulans had Bird of Prey's. The ship was said by Chekov to be a Scout-Class vessel.


Make sense?
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Old September 18 2009, 09:55 PM   #2
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Re: Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

Yes. Yes it does make sense. I just whipped up this side profile. I'll try to do the other views soon.
That's as far down as the warp nacelles go. There's a hinge on the nacelle wing for landing- it doesn't have to raise far. I selected a green with more a light grey for the overall colour, and grey contrasting colours (primarily for detail and break up various elements of the ship. I also added K'Tinga type intercoolers (or whatever they are), in place of those giant grills that originally folded into the ship.

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Old September 19 2009, 12:57 AM   #3
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Re: Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

Patrickivan wrote: View Post
Yes. Yes it does make sense. I just whipped up this side profile. I'll try to do the other views soon.
That's as far down as the warp nacelles go. There's a hinge on the nacelle wing for landing- it doesn't have to raise far. I selected a green with more a light grey for the overall colour, and grey contrasting colours (primarily for detail and break up various elements of the ship. I also added K'Tinga type intercoolers (or whatever they are), in place of those giant grills that originally folded into the ship.

Very Nice
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Old September 19 2009, 05:08 PM   #4
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Re: Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

* shrugs * I never really had much of a problem with the design, aside from the scaling issues. Non-canonically speaking, that's the Klingons' fault for tampering with the original scout hulls the Romulans gave them.
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Old September 19 2009, 07:40 PM   #5
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

Patrickivan,

The design is much better, and cleaned up a great deal. Still, I think the design is a bit clunky. If you'd be open to revision, here are my ideas


BRIDGE-AREA

1.) The area where the bridge is housed, I think you should go for a fairly clean look. Just go with the basic shape: A 3D Oval -- Longer than it is wide and deep, and wider than it is deep.

2.) Retain torpedo-tube in front. But color it blue like a navigational deflector leaving a reasonably sized hole in the middle for a cylindrical torpedo-tube (Like the designs in ENT)

3.) Add a chine similar to the one used on the Enterprise-B. Put it around the mid-section (50% height) of the area where the bridge is housed.


MAIN HULL

1.) I was thinking of revising the shape of the area where you mounted the intercooler



I printed the image out, and drew on the printing with a pen. You'll notice the revised afterbody shape. It looks in my opinion to be far more streamlined. It seems to go better IMHO with the Klingon BoP design.


WINGS

1.) I think the leading-edge of the wings should have some kind of hydrogen intake grilling in the front (like how the K'Tinga does)

2.) For the sake of making the vehicle look sleeker, yet also looking like it could be aerodynamic, which the vessel is canonically. I've illustrated an example of what I was going for here, granted the drawing is crappy so it doesn't look perfect



The bottom illustration is the contouring of the BoP's wing.

The top drawing illustrates a very crude basic wing-cross section that looks sufficiently Star Trek like and has some curviness to it. The contouring has basically eight edges, I drew the lines to where I intended the edge to be as the drawing is rather sloppy and when it scanned in it became substantially larger than intended.


PYLONS

1.) While the wings are better off level, but the pylons which the warp engines hang on should be down like how the Bird of Prey did.


WARP NACELLES

1.) I was proposing a more streamlined looking nacelle. As before, I have an illustration.



I'm not necessarily saying I want the nacelle to look exactly like this, I want the design to have engine-grilles on them and everything, but I do think it would look cooler if the front and backs of the nacelle are not as large as the mid-section of the nacelle as the drawing illustrates.

2.) I don't see any reason for the nacelle grilles either inboard or outboard to glow green. The only reason seems to be to indicate it's not a federation ship. I assume their engines would work on similar principles and should glow similar colors.


Sincerely,
CuttingEdge100
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Old September 19 2009, 09:25 PM   #6
Icy_Penguigo
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Re: Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

The Klingon F5 frigate from Star Fleet Battles:



Sounds very similar to what you're describing.
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Old September 19 2009, 09:39 PM   #7
Patrickivan
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Re: Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
Patrickivan,

The design is much better, and cleaned up a great deal. Still, I think the design is a bit clunky. If you'd be open to revision, here are my ideas


BRIDGE-AREA

1.) The area where the bridge is housed, I think you should go for a fairly clean look. Just go with the basic shape: A 3D Oval -- Longer than it is wide and deep, and wider than it is deep.

2.) Retain torpedo-tube in front. But color it blue like a navigational deflector leaving a reasonably sized hole in the middle for a cylindrical torpedo-tube (Like the designs in ENT)

3.) Add a chine similar to the one used on the Enterprise-B. Put it around the mid-section (50% height) of the area where the bridge is housed.


MAIN HULL

1.) I was thinking of revising the shape of the area where you mounted the intercooler



I printed the image out, and drew on the printing with a pen. You'll notice the revised afterbody shape. It looks in my opinion to be far more streamlined. It seems to go better IMHO with the Klingon BoP design.


WINGS

1.) I think the leading-edge of the wings should have some kind of hydrogen intake grilling in the front (like how the K'Tinga does)

2.) For the sake of making the vehicle look sleeker, yet also looking like it could be aerodynamic, which the vessel is canonically. I've illustrated an example of what I was going for here, granted the drawing is crappy so it doesn't look perfect



The bottom illustration is the contouring of the BoP's wing.

The top drawing illustrates a very crude basic wing-cross section that looks sufficiently Star Trek like and has some curviness to it. The contouring has basically eight edges, I drew the lines to where I intended the edge to be as the drawing is rather sloppy and when it scanned in it became substantially larger than intended.


PYLONS

1.) While the wings are better off level, but the pylons which the warp engines hang on should be down like how the Bird of Prey did.


WARP NACELLES

1.) I was proposing a more streamlined looking nacelle. As before, I have an illustration.



I'm not necessarily saying I want the nacelle to look exactly like this, I want the design to have engine-grilles on them and everything, but I do think it would look cooler if the front and backs of the nacelle are not as large as the mid-section of the nacelle as the drawing illustrates.

2.) I don't see any reason for the nacelle grilles either inboard or outboard to glow green. The only reason seems to be to indicate it's not a federation ship. I assume their engines would work on similar principles and should glow similar colors.


Sincerely,
CuttingEdge100
Hey- I'm up for changes! This is fun. The kids are on the bloody computer, so I can't get to it now, but I want to work on the wings to be more aerodynamic, like an actual wing (airfoil). It's hard in paint though.

Your warp nacelle shape seems very TNG warbirdish (minus the 2 pointy front parts), and I want to stay away from that. Maybe a more streamlined shape like a jet fighter fuel or missile pod? We can assume that the Klingons emphasised such areodynamics because they use this vehicle planet side a lot, and perhaps their antigrav assistance isn't as advanced as, say the Feds...

Ya- I'm going to try a fuel pod shape.

And perhaps I'll blend the bridge section/boom/aft hull more... Again, for more aerodynamic purposes, or to help lower it's sensor visibility to other ships.

Now I just have to get the kids off the computer. No draw app for the BlackBerry
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Old September 20 2009, 12:23 AM   #8
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

Patrickivan,

Hey- I'm up for changes! This is fun. The kids are on the bloody computer, so I can't get to it now, but I want to work on the wings to be more aerodynamic, like an actual wing (airfoil).
Sounds good. I don't know how aerodynamic I'd want to go though. If it becomes too aerodynamic, it might look "Un Trek". Regardless the vessel has so much thrust from it's engines and vertical thrusters (and you don't produce lift at zero airspeed without vertical thrust) it probably wouldn't make too much of a difference. It would be of some help probably though.

It's hard in paint though.
I'm using photoshop, but I know the feeling.

Your warp nacelle shape seems very TNG warbirdish (minus the 2 pointy front parts), and I want to stay away from that.
I wasn't going for the exact same shape as the D'Deridex. I just wanted it to have a little sleekness while conforming to the warp-nacelle design the Klingons stereotypically use. I figured the best way to go for sleekness was to have the mid sections taller than the front and rear sections.

Still, it's your call.

Maybe a more streamlined shape like a jet fighter fuel or missile pod? We can assume that the Klingons emphasised such areodynamics because they use this vehicle planet side a lot, and perhaps their antigrav assistance isn't as advanced as, say the Feds...
If they can use a functional warp-drive which manipulates the fabric of space-time (and gravity is the result of curved space-time), I don't think it would be a major obstacle.

And perhaps I'll blend the bridge section/boom/aft hull more...
I don't know if I'd want to blend it more than the D-7 or K'Tinga. Too much blending and it might look uncharacteristic for Star-Trek Klingon-designs.

Again, for more aerodynamic purposes, or to help lower it's sensor visibility to other ships.
I don't think stealth-characteristics would do much good for Star Trek. The Federation, Klingons, Romulans all seem to have passive sensors that can produce visual images (electro-optics), you can't defeat that with stealth (except cloaking).


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Old September 20 2009, 05:12 AM   #9
Ziz
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Re: Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
3.) Revise folding-wings. They only need to fold up a bit for planetary landings. Folding them down for gunnery purposes is useless. Moving the wings down actually places the disruptors further down below the height of the bridge which makes aiming harder. If the wings are level, they are closer to the position of the bridge. It should also be noted that basic computers can predict where the phaser/disruptor blasts will land.
While I agree that the guns can be relocated, your thinking behind why to move them off the wing tips is irrelevant. Your reasoning only makes sense if the gunner is in a bubble window on top of the ship and has to literally look at the guns to aim. Granted, Klingon tech lags behind Federation tech in general, but it's not THAT primitive.
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Old September 20 2009, 07:45 PM   #10
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

Ziz,

That wasn't the entire reason for relocating the guns. I also wanted to put warp-nacelles on the wing-tips since other Klingon designs (D-7/ K'Tinga) had it.


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Old September 24 2009, 06:15 PM   #11
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Re: Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

Patrickivan,

I just found something interesting. The nacelle design I outlined is actually not too far off from ENT's D-4 Battlecruiser (except it's filled in, and to the best of my knowledge the grille set-up was to be similar to the D-7)



I don't think there's a serious issue with it looking too "Romulan".


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Old September 25 2009, 12:23 AM   #12
Patrickivan
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Re: Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

Okay- yeah... I'm not too keen on that opening in the back part of the nacelle. I'd fill it in, and square off the front, like in your drawing.

I've been displaced from the computer this week because of the kids. So I'm hoping to make some progress this weekend when the kids are gone.
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Old September 25 2009, 02:44 AM   #13
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Re: Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
Patrickivan,

I just found something interesting. The nacelle design I outlined is actually not too far off from ENT's D-4 Battlecruiser (except it's filled in, and to the best of my knowledge the grille set-up was to be similar to the D-7)



I don't think there's a serious issue with it looking too "Romulan".


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I thought ENT called this the D-5...
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Old September 25 2009, 02:55 AM   #14
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

Patrickivan,

Okay- yeah... I'm not too keen on that opening in the back part of the nacelle. I'd fill it in, and square off the front, like in your drawing.
Thanks

I've been displaced from the computer this week because of the kids. So I'm hoping to make some progress this weekend when the kids are gone.
Not a problem


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Old September 25 2009, 03:20 AM   #15
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Re: Re-Imagined Klingon Bird-of-Prey

I like the update alot. Nice!
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