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Old June 22 2009, 02:10 AM   #16
hyzmarca
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Re: Borg Theories

Mr.Borg wrote: View Post
You know..there is a you tube video on how the Borg were created. I think it was like the Son'a. First they were a species (I think the queen's species) and then there was a war. And then the species split into two parts. The Borg Part made themselves into cyborgs and starting killing and assimilating everything.
No, the Son'a are far too young to be the Borg, and they're from the Alpha Quadrent.

Tachyon Shield wrote: View Post
Mr.Borg wrote: View Post
The Borg Part made themselves into cyborgs and starting killing and assimilating everything.
I find it difficult to believe a species would intentionally and willingly make themselves the way the Borg are.
It makes much more sense that they were developing nano-probes and cybernetics as a weapon in a war and that it all backfired on them.

Would you freely have limbs chopped off for implants and give your freedom up to a collective consciousness? I certainly wouldn't, no intelligent species in the Trekverse would neither IMO.
Limbs chopped off for implants? Hell yes. A lot of other people would agree, especially those with disabilities which render their limbs useless anyway, but many who are perfectly healthy, as well. Of course, you don't need limbs chopped off for most of the Borg implants, just the big tool arm.

The collective is a bit harder sell, but it depends on how one presents it. I doubt the collective as it is now was the original intent. It might have just been a communication system. Most likely, it was intended to make truely democratic decision making possible, by ensuring that everyone was correctly informed on issues, and that everyone got a vote, but as time wore on it got out of hand, the crushing power of billions of minds who had gotten the implants as children and thus had never really known individuality turned the Borg into what they are now. I doubt that anyone actually considered the possibility before it was too late to do anything about it.
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Old June 23 2009, 05:09 AM   #17
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Borg Theories

Tachyon Shield wrote: View Post
Mr.Borg wrote: View Post
The Borg Part made themselves into cyborgs and starting killing and assimilating everything.
I find it difficult to believe a species would intentionally and willingly make themselves the way the Borg are.
It makes much more sense that they were developing nano-probes and cybernetics as a weapon in a war and that it all backfired on them.

Would you freely have limbs chopped off for implants and give your freedom up to a collective consciousness? I certainly wouldn't, no intelligent species in the Trekverse would neither IMO.
The implication in Q Who was that they voluntarily modified themselves originally.

The idea is that they could become perfect by doing so. They certainly would be more efficient if they had a collective mind. I do wonder if the Borg mind reprograms other minds or if it's more like a majority will overwhelming the minority one.
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Old June 23 2009, 03:15 PM   #18
dave_R_treker
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Re: Borg Theories

Gorn Captain wrote: View Post
Perhaps one of those Billy Mays telemarketing products gone horribly wrong.
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Old June 23 2009, 05:37 PM   #19
Islander
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Re: Borg Theories

I'm not sure how it originally ended up in the beaming down in a red shirt thread, but here's my 2 cents on this:

Islander wrote: View Post
The Borg began in an alternate reality where it's the Terminator that screwed Sarah Connor instead of Kyle Reese...
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Last edited by Islander; June 23 2009 at 05:50 PM.
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Old June 24 2009, 03:59 AM   #20
Praetor
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Re: Borg Theories

Vanyel wrote: View Post
I seem to remember reading an unmade script from Voyager that dealt with the origin of the Borg. They find a space craft and 7 of 9 recognizes the pilot as a member of species 1. He explains the origin of the Borg. His species was developing a planetary defense. He and another man were aboard an orbiting space craft, getting ready to activate the system. When it is activated, the defense system targets its creators and the pilots watch helpless as the Borg assimilate the planet. Trying to find where I read that.
I remember that, too.

I've always thought the Borg would have been a nice way to explain where those ancient civilizations mentioned periodically as uber-powerful in TOS eventually went...
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Old June 24 2009, 04:07 AM   #21
Anwar
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Re: Borg Theories

Well, has anyone read the Star Trek TOS Manga where Kirk and co effectively create the Borg and send them back in time?
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Old June 24 2009, 04:26 AM   #22
zenfakor
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Re: Borg Theories

No link to origin.
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Old June 24 2009, 04:57 AM   #23
Anwar
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Re: Borg Theories

Well, yes there was. The story mentioned how the people Kirk encountered were dying from a disease and they were using nanotech to heal them. But somehow the virus merged with the nanotech and it became a nano-virus infecting others. Or something like that, I have to read the story again.
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Old June 24 2009, 05:39 AM   #24
hyzmarca
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Re: Borg Theories

Any nanotech origin for the Borg comes pre-Jossed. The Borg got their nanotech from Species 149. Assuming that there numbering scheme makes any sense, that was early in their carreer but still well after they started doing their Borg thing.

I prefer the gradual transhumanist explanation, because it's so believable. Start with one small neurological implant that becomes ubiquitous due to it's utility, perhaps a wireless DNI that allows one to operate a computer and access the internet with thought alone. From there, you start adding features and designing new implants. Practically everything that the Borg has is of serious utility value to an individual. most woundly want all the implants, but many would want at least one or two. The DNI is a no-brainer, and super strength is nice, too.

Now, the problem comes in which the DNI implant starts being used for P2P chatting rather than just as a fancy keyboard and moniter. At first its no problem, because the brains remain seperate. But firmware updates that allow more inttimate mind sharing are inevitable, untill you end up mini-collective clusters, originally consisting of groups of friends, lovers, nuclear families, and workgroups. Politicians might also use it to reach a consensus more easily. But it's still very good. It's a tool, not a yoke.
Of course, it becomes fashionable to implant young children with DNI, because it aids learning and makes childrearing much easier. Young parents never have to face the frustration of not knowing what their crying baby wants, a simply mind-meld would clear everything up.

It would likely remain good for several generations. Disease isn't eleminated, but it is reduced. Violent crime is practically non-existant, as criminals would have to feel exactly what their victims felt. The network is global now, so you're linked to every other mind in the world, but that's alright, it's actually very useful. Being linked to every mind also means being linked to all the knowledge and experience of the whole. Problem solving becomes much easier.

It only becomes a problem when the children grew up linked to the Collective have children, and their children have children, and those elders who knew what it was like to be individuals died of natural causes. Over time, over the course of centuries, perhaps millennia, this society forgets individuality all together, remembering it only as a ecco of an ancient memory. That's when they become dangerous. That's what makes them Borg.
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Old June 24 2009, 06:36 AM   #25
Jono
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Re: Borg Theories

Tachyon Shield wrote: View Post
I'm sorry but I don't want ANY link between Humans and the Borg when it comes to their origin. I just want the Borg to be completely separate.
Completely agree.


Last edited by Jono; June 24 2009 at 04:40 PM. Reason: added spoiler code
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Old June 24 2009, 06:48 AM   #26
Herkimer Jitty
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Re: Borg Theories

Here's my Borg theory:

They exist.

End of line.
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Old June 24 2009, 07:04 AM   #27
SilentP
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Re: Borg Theories

Jono wrote: View Post
Tachyon Shield wrote: View Post
I'm sorry but I don't want ANY link between Humans and the Borg when it comes to their origin. I just want the Borg to be completely separate.
.
Gah, curse you, I'm still reading those

Last edited by SilentP; June 24 2009 at 09:45 AM.
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Old June 24 2009, 07:35 AM   #28
RAMA
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Re: Borg Theories

Here's a PDF file of some old BBs post speculation I made with an idea for the origin of the Borg:

http://www.keepandshare.com/doc/view...d=1240705&da=y
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Old June 24 2009, 08:56 AM   #29
Jono
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Re: Borg Theories

SilentP wrote: View Post
Gah, curse you, I'm still reading those
Changed it to spoiler code now if you want to adjust you post as well.
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Old June 24 2009, 09:45 AM   #30
SilentP
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Re: Borg Theories

Jono wrote: View Post
SilentP wrote: View Post
Gah, curse you, I'm still reading those
Changed it to spoiler code now if you want to adjust you post as well.
Done, hopefully it won't change the revelation when I get to it.
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