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Old June 14 2011, 03:00 PM   #241
Dimesdan
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
Why trash a perfectly good ship?
Exactly, the NX class was fine, should still be in use now
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Old June 14 2011, 03:32 PM   #242
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
Let's look at the Titan. The Titan is already outdated; the Vestas can do its job much faster but they don't have the resources to build a fleet of Vestas or the crystals to power a fleet of them. Until they do, ships like the Lunas and Sabres will do the work until the fleet can be completely replaced with those that are slipstream capable. And you can't retrofit older vessels with slipstream because the tech requires certain considerations that some older frames just can't be retrofit to handle.
I think the hull geometry of the Luna-class is slipstream capable. I wonder if they have plans to retrofit them with SS drives in the future?
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Old June 14 2011, 03:44 PM   #243
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Dimesdan wrote: View Post
BrotherBenny wrote: View Post
Dimesdan wrote: View Post
So why doesn't Starfleet still use the NX class?

I mean sure, it's 200 years out of date but it can still be upgraded and used along side more "modern" ships.
The space frame could not withstand the stresses of a modern engine. According to Indistinguishable from Magic, the NX-class were able to go at warp 3 on the TNG warp scale. I doubt the hull could withstand the stresses of a warp 9 engine.
Oh I knew that full well

What Chris said just seemed completely stupid given that we vary rarely see really old ships (over 100 plus years old)
The Saber is over 100 years old

I though it was only like about 10 seeing as THAT'S ABOUT WHEN IT WAS BUILT.

Seriously why the rush to get rid of ships that are still kind of young?
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Old June 14 2011, 03:45 PM   #244
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Dimesdan wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Starfleet has a lot of resources, and it's a moneyless society. They can afford to operate the new class of ship without having to retire the other.
So why doesn't Starfleet still use the NX class?
Well, that's a complete non sequitur. You wouldn't replace, say, a modern Gulfstream V corporate jet with a 747 Dreamlifter, because they fill completely different, coexisting niches; but you would definitely replace a 1937-vintage Grumman Goose with a modern small commuter plane, because the modern plane fills the same niche with better technology.

Again, how hard is it to understand the concept of using the right tool for the right job? If your crummy 30-year-old screwdriver breaks, you don't replace it with an industrial jackhammer. You replace it with a new screwdriver made of modern materials. Starships are not universally interchangeable. Different classes serve different purposes. Replacing an old ship with a new ship designed for the same purpose makes sense. Replacing a ship designed for one purpose with a contemporary ship designed for a completely different purpose is just nonsensical.
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Old June 14 2011, 03:59 PM   #245
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Dimesdan wrote: View Post
BrotherBenny wrote: View Post
The space frame could not withstand the stresses of a modern engine. According to Indistinguishable from Magic, the NX-class were able to go at warp 3 on the TNG warp scale. I doubt the hull could withstand the stresses of a warp 9 engine.
Oh I knew that full well

What Chris said just seemed completely stupid given that we vary rarely see really old ships (over 100 plus years old)
The Saber is over 100 years old

I though it was only like about 10 seeing as THAT'S ABOUT WHEN IT WAS BUILT.

Seriously why the rush to get rid of ships that are still kind of young?
Ah yes, I can see why you would make that mistake, I didn't mean to imply that the Saber is a Century old, I reckon it's about 20 or so years old, I meant ships like the Miranda, Excelsior or Constitution (although that hasn't featured since TUC) classes, we only ever see those due to budgetary reasons by the production crew and it seems that Starfleet is constantly updating ship designs and replacing old ship designs as new advancements comes along.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Dimesdan wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Starfleet has a lot of resources, and it's a moneyless society. They can afford to operate the new class of ship without having to retire the other.
So why doesn't Starfleet still use the NX class?
Well, that's a complete non sequitur. You wouldn't replace, say, a modern Gulfstream V corporate jet with a 747 Dreamlifter, because they fill completely different, coexisting niches; but you would definitely replace a 1937-vintage Grumman Goose with a modern small commuter plane, because the modern plane fills the same niche with better technology.

Again, how hard is it to understand the concept of using the right tool for the right job? If your crummy 30-year-old hammer breaks, you don't replace it with a table-mounted pneumatic press. You replace it with a new hammer made of modern materials. Starships are not universally interchangeable. Different classes serve different purposes. Replacing an old ship with a new ship designed for the same purpose makes sense. Replacing a ship designed for one purpose with a contemporary ship designed for a completely different purpose is just nonsensical.
Of course you replace your old hammer, makes perfect sense and in this new and improved Trek Universe where the Borg have destroyed countless worlds and wiped out Billions of people, as someone said up thread, I'd rather have a massive factory in space show up in orbit and help out than, say, a small ship that if to be honest, doesn't look all that brilliant.

It's not hard to understand one bit, I just don't take it as seriously as you.
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Old June 14 2011, 04:43 PM   #246
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Dimesdan wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Dimesdan wrote: View Post

Oh I knew that full well

What Chris said just seemed completely stupid given that we vary rarely see really old ships (over 100 plus years old)
The Saber is over 100 years old

I though it was only like about 10 seeing as THAT'S ABOUT WHEN IT WAS BUILT.

Seriously why the rush to get rid of ships that are still kind of young?
Ah yes, I can see why you would make that mistake, I didn't mean to imply that the Saber is a Century old, I reckon it's about 20 or so years old,
I'm pretty sure it's only around 10 years old.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Dimesdan wrote: View Post
So why doesn't Starfleet still use the NX class?
Well, that's a complete non sequitur. You wouldn't replace, say, a modern Gulfstream V corporate jet with a 747 Dreamlifter, because they fill completely different, coexisting niches; but you would definitely replace a 1937-vintage Grumman Goose with a modern small commuter plane, because the modern plane fills the same niche with better technology.

Again, how hard is it to understand the concept of using the right tool for the right job? If your crummy 30-year-old hammer breaks, you don't replace it with a table-mounted pneumatic press. You replace it with a new hammer made of modern materials. Starships are not universally interchangeable. Different classes serve different purposes. Replacing an old ship with a new ship designed for the same purpose makes sense. Replacing a ship designed for one purpose with a contemporary ship designed for a completely different purpose is just nonsensical.
Of course you replace your old hammer,
but not with a giant mallet like your proposing.
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Old June 14 2011, 05:01 PM   #247
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
That Demeter design is pretty tough looking. Two torpedo pods, 2 deflectors. Don't mess with that lady! I like the nacelles, they are VERY reminescant of the film nacelles.

We get several new Voyager pics next year, right?
This is the Planck (not the Demeter, as that one is my current project.)

The torpedo pods are actually sensory equipment. (The Planck, Curie and Hawking are equipped as science ships with minimal or little armament.)

It has 2 aft en 2 forward torpedo/probe launchers and 4 phaser strips.


I'm planning to continue my work on Voyager around August.
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Old June 14 2011, 05:02 PM   #248
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

In that new SOTL calendar, what is the ship on the left in the second picture?
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Old June 14 2011, 05:13 PM   #249
MatthiasRussell
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Clawhammer wrote: View Post
MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
That Demeter design is pretty tough looking. Two torpedo pods, 2 deflectors. Don't mess with that lady! I like the nacelles, they are VERY reminescant of the film nacelles.

We get several new Voyager pics next year, right?
This is the Planck (not the Demeter, as that one is my current project.)
Right, right, 9 ships in the fleet, I get confused.

BTW, were the choice of names Beyer's decision? I thought it was odd how many proper names were used considering how often non-names have been used to name ships like Enterprise, Voyager, and Defiant.
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Old June 14 2011, 05:52 PM   #250
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

To be fair, those are the 'hero' ships of various series, and made more sense to go with more open, generic names rather than proper names, so they don't have to spend 7 years explaining the name all the time, or having to write dialog to make it clear they aren't talking about a character...

Also those ones go back to centuries of naval tradition, so Enterprise, Defiant, Intrepid, etc weren't a stretch...
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Old June 14 2011, 08:24 PM   #251
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

As I am looking at the new SOTL calendar, two questions pop up. Do we need another picture of TOS Enterprise in dry dock and we do need another picture of the TOS Enterprise in Earth's atmosphere near Christopher's jet?
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Old June 14 2011, 09:07 PM   #252
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Aside from a couple interesting pictures, like the one we're discussing, that calendar DID seem a bit dry in the 'new/interesting material' department...
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Old June 18 2011, 05:55 AM   #253
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
Let's look at the Titan. The Titan is already outdated; the Vestas can do its job much faster but they don't have the resources to build a fleet of Vestas or the crystals to power a fleet of them. Until they do, ships like the Lunas and Sabres will do the work until the fleet can be completely replaced with those that are slipstream capable. And you can't retrofit older vessels with slipstream because the tech requires certain considerations that some older frames just can't be retrofit to handle.
I thought that it was trivially easy to retrofit existing Federation starships with slipstream, and that it was just benamite shortages which limited the transformation. If Voyager was able to almost implement it alone in the Delta Quadrant, I don't see why older vessels back in the Federation couldn't be similarly retrofitted, especially since warp and slipstream drives seem to require similar geometries.
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Old June 18 2011, 04:34 PM   #254
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

rfmcdpei wrote: View Post
I thought that it was trivially easy to retrofit existing Federation starships with slipstream, and that it was just benamite shortages which limited the transformation. If Voyager was able to almost implement it alone in the Delta Quadrant, I don't see why older vessels back in the Federation couldn't be similarly retrofitted, especially since warp and slipstream drives seem to require similar geometries.
The way we've dealt with it in the books, some starship classes are more easily adapted to slipstream than others. Basically you need something reasonably narrow, since the wider a slipstream conduit is, the exponentially harder it is to maintain. Something like Voyager, which is a pretty slender and cylindrical-ish design to start with, is easily adaptable to slipstream, but something like a Galaxy or Nebula-class ship wouldn't have a prayer.
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Old June 18 2011, 08:25 PM   #255
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Chris McCarver wrote: View Post
MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
Any idea when the final image selections for the calendar will be made?
Ask and ye shall receive:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gVxUCsuBV1...+2012+back.jpg
Thank you kindly!

*tips the virtual Stetson of the Trekker who doubles as a Due South fan!*
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