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Old June 13 2011, 03:41 PM   #226
Scout101
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

I personally keep seeing the Achilles class from Dominion Wars. Not right either, but at least has a little bit of a flat, industrialized version of Voyager going on, so works for me until we see the 'real' thing...
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Old June 13 2011, 03:43 PM   #227
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Sxottlan wrote: View Post
If the Mulciber is new, I'm wondering if the SCE will replace its Sabers with these?
Why would they? Sabers are much smaller ships and much more general-purpose. Just because the SCE uses four Saber-class ships for their special teams, that doesn't mean the Saber was specifically designed as an "engineering" ship, or that it fills anything remotely like the same functional niche as the Mulciber. Remember, in canon they've generally been depicted as members of combat fleets. They're light cruisers and presumably have a wide range of applications. If the Sabers are likened to, say, small private jets, then the Mulciber reminds me more of those huge hunchbacked cargo jets that are used exclusively to transport the fuselages of passenger jets.
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Old June 13 2011, 09:07 PM   #228
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Christopher wrote: View Post
Sxottlan wrote: View Post
If the Mulciber is new, I'm wondering if the SCE will replace its Sabers with these?
Why would they?
Because they can of course and because sometimes things get so old, grow beyond there usefulness and need to be replaced and being on a Trek discussion board, these things will get discussed and postulated, it's the nature of the beast.

There is no such thing as a bad question, but there is a bad way of answering them.
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Old June 14 2011, 03:22 AM   #229
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Just didn't make a ton of sense in-universe, that's all. If your ski boat is getting old, you don't go get an oil tanker, you're probably looking at a new ski boat. Not to say that they WOULDN'T have a few of these in their garage, but sincerely doubt they'd scrap all their small multi-purpose ships for giant industrial fabrication ships...
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Old June 14 2011, 03:39 AM   #230
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
Any idea when the final image selections for the calendar will be made?
Ask and ye shall receive:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gVxUCsuBV1...+2012+back.jpg
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Old June 14 2011, 04:47 AM   #231
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Dimesdan wrote: View Post
There is no such thing as a bad question
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

()

Also yes they will get discussed and postulated. And Christopher was just pointing out that it would make no sense to do so. Just because stuff can be postulated, I don't see any reason all postulation has to be equal. Has to be based on something, otherwise you're just throwing spaghetti at the wall and seeing what sticks. And if postulation is baseless or doesn't fit, seems fair to me to point out that fact.
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Old June 14 2011, 09:10 AM   #232
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Chris McCarver wrote: View Post
MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
Any idea when the final image selections for the calendar will be made?
Ask and ye shall receive:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gVxUCsuBV1...+2012+back.jpg
Yummy!
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Old June 14 2011, 10:52 AM   #233
Sxottlan
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Jesum Crow. Excuse me for a little whimsical musing.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Why would they?
Why not? I think you answer your own question here:

Christopher wrote: View Post
Sabers are much smaller ships and much more general-purpose. Just because the SCE uses four Saber-class ships for their special teams, that doesn't mean the Saber was specifically designed as an "engineering" ship, or that it fills anything remotely like the same functional niche as the Mulciber.
Bigger ship. More engineers on board. More resources. In the post-Borg invasion era, I'd say SCE vessels that could specialize in massive reconstruction efforts would be preferable to a smaller ship with a smaller crew.

Sure, situations will be different. Keep the Sabers then. As you say, the SCE fleet comes in all at a whopping four vessels. Keep them until they build more Mulcibers.

If there is a lot of internal volume that is cargo space, there's no reason much of that couldn't be modular and thus easy to convert for whatever is needed. As I said, we don't know all that it can do yet.

Christopher wrote: View Post
Remember, in canon they've generally been depicted as members of combat fleets. They're light cruisers and presumably have a wide range of applications.
Er, yes. I know. Thanks.

Christopher wrote: View Post
If the Sabers are likened to, say, small private jets, then the Mulciber reminds me more of those huge hunchbacked cargo jets that are used exclusively to transport the fuselages of passenger jets.
Well again, depending on the situation, I think I'd be happier seeing the big cargo jet filled with manpower and material landing on my planet as opposed to something delivering less of both. As B'lenna said when she stepped aboard the Achilles, just knowing it was there was a comfort.
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Old June 14 2011, 10:54 AM   #234
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Chris McCarver wrote: View Post
MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
Any idea when the final image selections for the calendar will be made?
Ask and ye shall receive:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gVxUCsuBV1...+2012+back.jpg

Oh look at that!

Sadly they got the class name wrong in the larger image. (might be politics, but I doubt it.) The centerfold is right. (Same ship.) It took me quite some time to get this one done.
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Old June 14 2011, 12:47 PM   #235
MatthiasRussell
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Csalem wrote: View Post
Chris McCarver wrote: View Post
MatthiasRussell wrote: View Post
Any idea when the final image selections for the calendar will be made?
Ask and ye shall receive:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-gVxUCsuBV1...+2012+back.jpg
Yummy!
Suuu--weee--tuh . . .

Is that Probert's C concept in many of the images? What class is it?

That Demeter design is pretty tough looking. Two torpedo pods, 2 deflectors. Don't mess with that lady! I like the nacelles, they are VERY reminescant of the film nacelles.

We get several new Voyager pics next year, right?
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Old June 14 2011, 02:22 PM   #236
Christopher
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Sxottlan wrote: View Post
Sure, situations will be different. Keep the Sabers then. As you say, the SCE fleet comes in all at a whopping four vessels. Keep them until they build more Mulcibers.
Why "until?" They fulfill completely different roles, so why shouldn't they coexist? Use them both, side-by-side.


Well again, depending on the situation, I think I'd be happier seeing the big cargo jet filled with manpower and material landing on my planet as opposed to something delivering less of both. As B'lenna said when she stepped aboard the Achilles, just knowing it was there was a comfort.
Why even think of it in terms of opposition, as though it were a zero-sum game, either one or the other? Starfleet has a lot of resources, and it's a moneyless society. They can afford to operate the new class of ship without having to retire the other.

And not all SCE crews are identical. Like the tools they use, they're tailored for different functions. The Achilles and its crew are specialized for massive repair and construction projects, your classic Corps of Engineers responsibilities. The da Vinci crew is something different -- a special team of multidisciplinary troubleshooters who travel around the Federation solving diverse types of problems. They need to be light, lean, fast, and flexible. A small, speedy light cruiser like the Saber is ideal for that, but it's totally the wrong use for a massive factory ship like the Achilles. Remember the engineer's maxim, the right tool for the right job.

There's no reason the two classes of ship couldn't function in concert. A problem arises, a special team in a Saber swoops in and figures out a solution, and if that solution requires a massive construction effort, then you call in the Mulciber to sit around and do the long, involved heavy lifting while the Saber flits away to deal with the next problem somewhere else -- a problem that may demand a sociologist or a linguist or a doctor more than it demands a factory.
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Old June 14 2011, 02:25 PM   #237
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Christopher wrote: View Post
Starfleet has a lot of resources, and it's a moneyless society. They can afford to operate the new class of ship without having to retire the other.
So why doesn't Starfleet still use the NX class?

I mean sure, it's 200 years out of date but it can still be upgraded and used along side more "modern" ships.
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Old June 14 2011, 02:39 PM   #238
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Dimesdan wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Starfleet has a lot of resources, and it's a moneyless society. They can afford to operate the new class of ship without having to retire the other.
So why doesn't Starfleet still use the NX class?

I mean sure, it's 200 years out of date but it can still be upgraded and used along side more "modern" ships.
The space frame could not withstand the stresses of a modern engine. According to Indistinguishable from Magic, the NX-class were able to go at warp 3 on the TNG warp scale. I doubt the hull could withstand the stresses of a warp 9 engine.

In regards to the point of the Mulcibers and Sabers, the Mulciber probably has a shuttle bay large enough for a Saber-class ship, or something of a similar size.
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Old June 14 2011, 02:52 PM   #239
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

BrotherBenny wrote: View Post
Dimesdan wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Starfleet has a lot of resources, and it's a moneyless society. They can afford to operate the new class of ship without having to retire the other.
So why doesn't Starfleet still use the NX class?

I mean sure, it's 200 years out of date but it can still be upgraded and used along side more "modern" ships.
The space frame could not withstand the stresses of a modern engine. According to Indistinguishable from Magic, the NX-class were able to go at warp 3 on the TNG warp scale. I doubt the hull could withstand the stresses of a warp 9 engine.
Oh I knew that full well

What Chris said just seemed completely stupid given that we vary rarely see really old ships (over 100 plus years old) and by his own admission when we do it's because of budgetary constrains.

If Starfleet does develop a newer better vessel, what exactly is the point of keeping the lesser vessel anyway. Why not just upgrade older vessels, hell, given the right upgrades the NX class would probably be able to go at standard warp speeds of the latter 24th Century.
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Old June 14 2011, 02:59 PM   #240
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Why trash a perfectly good ship? After the Borg invasion, the fleet is in shambles. It will take them years to replinish it in ships and manpower. I doubt ANY ship will be retired for a loooong time.

No one wants to see the Mirandas retired more than me but I think we will see ships like that pulled out of moth balls now, not to mention the sabres.

Let's look at the Titan. The Titan is already outdated; the Vestas can do its job much faster but they don't have the resources to build a fleet of Vestas or the crystals to power a fleet of them. Until they do, ships like the Lunas and Sabres will do the work until the fleet can be completely replaced with those that are slipstream capable. And you can't retrofit older vessels with slipstream because the tech requires certain considerations that some older frames just can't be retrofit to handle.
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