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Old July 19 2009, 10:15 AM   #151
Marcus Porcius Cato
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

I remain skeptical how the ST or Federation canafford such investment. Why not wait a few years until the rebuilding has begun to take shape?
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Old July 19 2009, 10:31 AM   #152
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

^ I suppose the argument is Starfleet needs to be sure the Borg has gone, to determine what they'll invest where...of course a QS probe would do the same job...
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Old July 19 2009, 02:12 PM   #153
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Well, the most honest answer is that if we did books that were only about the Federation rebuilding, people wouldn't buy them. We need exploration and starship adventure.

Still, let's remember we're not talking about a single country here, but a power that spans hundreds of entire planets and their offworld colonies, stations, etc. The Federation's size and wealth (in terms of resources) are inconceivably vast, so even after it's relatively weakened and impoverished, it's still going to have far more resources at its disposal than every nation on Earth put together. By those standards, installing slipstream drive on nine ships is not that great an outlay of resources and effort. Compared to the work of rebuilding and relocating entire planets' worth of civilizations, a nine-ship fleet is an inconsequential line item.
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Old July 19 2009, 05:21 PM   #154
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, the most honest answer is that if we did books that were only about the Federation rebuilding, people wouldn't buy them.
If nuBSG has proven anything, it's that unrelenting bleakness, doom and darkness does sell.

We need exploration and starship adventure.
Yes, we do, don't we? So let's have some.
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Old July 19 2009, 11:24 PM   #155
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
i like to think that Starfleet realised the MVA mode didn't work and it went into production as a bog-standard ship.
Though I think the Prometheus MVA system might actually lead to the development of smaller saucer seperation capable ships which would be a good thing since it probably takes less time to cram everyone in the saucer section then to get to the escape pods.

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Well, the most honest answer is that if we did books that were only about the Federation rebuilding, people wouldn't buy them.
If nuBSG has proven anything, it's that unrelenting bleakness, doom and darkness does sell.

We need exploration and starship adventure.
Yes, we do, don't we? So let's have some.
Just becuase the Federation's Superpower status is threatened doesn't mean its going to fall.
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Old July 20 2009, 12:51 AM   #156
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
i like to think that Starfleet realised the MVA mode didn't work and it went into production as a bog-standard ship.
only problem there is that it would very likely take more work to retrofit it as a single ship rather than to just scrap the project completely. Just think about how much of the ship is waste if you never intend to seperate: control areas, engines, weapons that are between sections, duplicate sickbays, etc.

Not quite like Excelsor, where ripping out the engines and slapping in the old ones would probably solve 85% of the problems. With the MVA design, so much of the initial planning and spaceframe is built around that gimmick...

Imagine they'd keep the prototype, as it's already built, but that would be it for the class. Can say they had already built extras, but you don't build 5 more before you do the testing of the concept and prototype...
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Old July 20 2009, 03:49 AM   #157
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
If nuBSG has proven anything, it's that unrelenting bleakness, doom and darkness does sell.
No, it's proven that well-written, well-made character-driven storytelling performed by a skilled cast sells. You're making the same mistake network executives always make -- assuming that if a show succeeds, it's because of the format or subject matter, and that therefore duplicating the format or subject matter will produce more hits. But what invariably happens is that the imitations bomb, because it wasn't the form or topic that brought success, it was the quality and originality of the execution.

Besides, how do you go from "books about the Federation rebuilding" to "unrelenting bleakness, doom and darkness?" Rebuilding isn't bleak. It's optimistic, by definition. It's about coming out of the darkness and making things better.
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Old July 20 2009, 03:56 AM   #158
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
i like to think that Starfleet realised the MVA mode didn't work

I'm not so sure it didn't work. Clearly it did - we've all seen it. But it may not be routinely deployed in battle as a standard maneuver. Perhaps it will only be used in emergencies, when a Prometheus-class vessel is unexpectedly cut off from the rest of its fleet, or is otherwise forced to operate alone.

And in a very real sense, it could save resources - if one crew can do what would normally take three (even if, as I said, this is only used in emergencies).

and it went into production as a bog-standard ship.
A what? A bog-standard ship...are we only now dealing with the problem of where the restrooms are?
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Old July 20 2009, 07:32 AM   #159
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

bog-standard means normal, not special.
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Old July 22 2009, 09:35 AM   #160
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Christopher wrote: View Post
But really, what's so special about the Prometheus's technology?
Actually nothing. It just looked cool back then. :-)

It was the first time for a Star Trek-episode to show a starship separating into three different units. But that's about it.

Personally, the exterior und interior design was a little too 23rd century to me.
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Old July 22 2009, 09:47 AM   #161
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
... it probably takes less time to cram everyone in the saucer section then to get to the escape pods.
That I doubt.

If people are spread throughout the ship, they can reach the next escape pod say in twenty seconds? That could be a live-saver. ;-)

If people have to get to the saucer section, that surely takes much longer. Not to mention transporters not working and/or turbo lifts without energy.
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Old July 22 2009, 03:19 PM   #162
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

^The idea behind the separating saucer in TNG was predicated on the notion that the saucer contained all the crew quarters and most of the work spaces to begin with, while the engineering hull contained mainly engineering, cargo, and such and was less populated. Also, the original idea was that the E-D had a crew consisting largely of civilian scientists and their families, who mostly lived and worked in the saucer. So despite what was shown for dramatic effect in Generations, realistically not that many people would've needed to get to the saucer from elsewhere in the event of a separation maneuver.

Also, the saucer wasn't meant to be a "lifeboat." It was the primary section of the ship, a university town in space, and the secondary hull contained its main engines and defenses and was capable of breaking off to defend it. Ideally, the way it should've worked, the saucer should've been left behind at a starbase or other safe place before the battle section went off on a dangerous mission.
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Old September 30 2009, 11:07 AM   #163
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

So just started reading Unworthy. The description of the Galen's bridge sure calls to mind the Olympic-Class bridge.
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Old October 4 2009, 12:35 AM   #164
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

I guess I'll make this a running commentary with spoilers as the information comes in. Although I always assume everyone's read these books before I do.

So as I continue to read, the Galen is not an Olympic-Class. More of a Mirandized Nova.

*sigh* Oh well. The AGT design was very sensible for a hospital ship imho. You could put the IC, ED and recovery wards deep in the sphere for protection against hull breach or attack.
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Old October 5 2009, 12:54 AM   #165
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Re: Discuss: The Voyager Fleet

Adding new information from Unworthy (spoilers for plot points, but not for ship specs: You've been warned). Recalling SicOne's list:

SicOne wrote: View Post
And to answer a previous poster, according to "Full Circle", pages 510-511, the DQ fleet will consist...

(1) USS Voyager
Intrepid-class modified with slipstream drive.

(2) and (3) Vesta-class ships USS Esquiline and USS Quirinal

(4), (5), and (6) unknown-class science ships USS Hawking, USS Planck, and USS Curie, one each to tag along with 1, 2, and 3 above. I had thought there was a mention of a USS Hawking in a TNG episode, but a cursory glance at Memory Alpha shows no listing.

(7) unknown-class specialty ship USS Galen (staffed by advanced holograms and serves as primary medical resource)
The Galen is a prototype ship designed by The Doctor and Louis Zimmerman (and presumably a team of regular Starfleet ship architects). It is described as "a cross between a Nova- and Miranda-class science vessel." The main section has six decks, has a wide triangular shape, and the nacelles are "mounted on short pylons extending directly from the drive section."

Decks 5 and 6 are mostly devoted to two emergency wards that are typically powered down when not in use.

Crew complement is 30, supplemented by medical, security, engineering (and command?) holographic personnel.

Galen's bridge consists of the captain's center seat, a single-place conn station in front of it, and tactical, ops, and science stations arranged to the captain's rear. (Which is much like the Pasteur's bridge seen in AGT, but the Pasteur had five stations to the captain's rear rather than the Galen's three. See the bridge illustration gallery at http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org)


(8) unknown-class specialty ship USS Achilles (carries vital backup components for the fleet's technology along with industrial replicators)

(9) unknown-class specialty ship USS Demeter (houses a vast airponics bay to provide supplemental food, as well as storage facilities for biological resources the fleet finds along its way)
If there was information on the class of Achilles and Demeter, I must have missed it. So, class still unknown.

And finally...
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