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Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 16 2009, 09:26 AM   #16
saddestmoon
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

Messianni wrote: View Post
npsf3000 wrote: View Post
One question, why exactly cant the saucer separate - did you get that from the film or your imagination?
He made it up. The argument of "...as Matt Jeffries intended" is absolutely mute considering...

1. Matt Jeffries is dead.
2. Matt Jeffries did not design the Kelvin.
3. Matt Jeffries is dead.

His entire post is basically grasping at straws because it doesn't conform to 1960's standards.

SilentP wrote: View Post
Jeri wrote: View Post
Uh oh; I think you have found something I could agree with. Poor George. Auto pilot has been "destroyed." That was a weird way of putting it; they usually say disabled or something. Destroyed is pretty emotive for a computer.
Did anyone notice though that George programmed the collision course which apparently was gonna last about 30-60 seconds, and then 'just sat back' to talk to Winonna, while the ship followed the course (which wasn't a straight line either)? It seemed like his presence was unnecessary for that last stretch or am I just reading the situation wrong?
I gathered he was staying to buy enough time for all of the shuttles to escape and to make sure the Kelvin made it long enough to ram the Narada. There may not have been too much he could do, but had he tried to run to a shuttle he never would have been able to program the collision course and the Narada would have swapped the shuttles off like flies.
^^^ My thoughts exactly!

TBH - I think the Kelvin was awesomeness personified!!!!

Infact - the only thing wrong with it, was that the Narada got in it's way...
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Old June 16 2009, 11:10 AM   #17
Sanae
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

I actually loved the Kelvin. It was a pretty cool ship...albeit I assume Starfleet used the experience to improve the autopilot's design, with special emphasis on its protection....

PS: Maybe I'm wrong but, didn't Daddy Kirk need stay on board so that he could protect the fleeing shuttles as well as manually set course to ram the Narada?
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Old June 16 2009, 12:14 PM   #18
Amra
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

And this is why people make fun of nerds.
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Old June 16 2009, 01:10 PM   #19
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

Messianni wrote: View Post
I gathered he was staying to buy enough time for all of the shuttles to escape and to make sure the Kelvin made it long enough to ram the Narada. There may not have been too much he could do, but had he tried to run to a shuttle he never would have been able to program the collision course and the Narada would have swapped the shuttles off like flies.
Ah fair enough, he probably needed to co-ordinate the weapons up until they were exhausted, then engage the collision course, rather than just set a collision course from the get go.
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Old June 16 2009, 01:25 PM   #20
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

The idea of the Kelvin having a metric buttload of shuttles has tickled my brain. The Kelvin was a survey ship. My guess is that it had lots of shuttles, and those shuttles had their own advanced sensors, so it could send out a whole bunch of survey teams and map an entire planet in one swath. According to that Intel site the upper nacelle seems to be just a giant hangar with a deflector on the front. That would indicate to me that the warp core is probably in the back of the saucer a la the Akira, NX, Norway or other "stardrive-less" designs. Therefore the saucer probably wouldn't make a very good lifeboat if it's full of antimatter. So my guess would be that using the fleet of survey shuttles was the best option. Although, those shuttles seemed to be jaunting along at very low impulse, so I hope there either was another ship in the area, or they were taking a dramatic pause to bask in the starlight and waiting for the fade to jump to warp.
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Old June 16 2009, 01:27 PM   #21
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

Yeah? Well, the USS Kelvin doesn't like you, either! Take that!
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Old June 16 2009, 01:37 PM   #22
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

I managed to count 20 shuttles that survived to the frame before the fade towards the title part. With 800 people to sort between them, does anyone think 40 people per shuttle is a stretch (or somewhere close to that number in case Pike was rounding up etc.), especially if not every shuttle was packed, like the medical one, or do you reckon that those shuttles are spacious enough to hold 40 each?
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Old June 16 2009, 01:54 PM   #23
FrankR
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

SilentP wrote: View Post
I managed to count 20 shuttles that survived to the frame before the fade towards the title part. With 800 people to sort between them, does anyone think 40 people per shuttle is a stretch (or somewhere close to that number in case Pike was rounding up etc.), especially if not every shuttle was packed, like the medical one, or do you reckon that those shuttles are spacious enough to hold 40 each?
Think about it this way: "Ensign; get in the shuttle with those other 39 people and live or stay here and die."

I believe there was a thread a few weeks ago on this very topic.
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Old June 16 2009, 02:04 PM   #24
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

FrankR wrote: View Post
Think about it this way: "Ensign; get in the shuttle with those other 39 people and live or stay here and die."

I believe there was a thread a few weeks ago on this very topic.
Hehe, true Guess I'm still not used to these beefier sized shuttles compared to the ones that have been on all the other shows.
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Old June 16 2009, 02:06 PM   #25
Jeri
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

Yes, there was and earlier thread. It was said shuttles can hold 50 individuals; the academy shuttle that Kirk and McCoy boarded looked like it could. Also, in the book, George Kirk had to set a course somewhere down below where the Narada weapons could get him and make sure they didn't destroy him before the collision. He also programmed the auto-destruct to blow up simultaneously with the collision for an extra-nice explosion. The Narada would have been fixing that for a long time. There much to like about the Kelvin.
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Old June 16 2009, 04:17 PM   #26
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

Amra wrote: View Post
And this is why people make fun of nerds.
Says the person registered to a Star Trek message board.
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Old June 16 2009, 07:08 PM   #27
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

Temper, Temper folks!

I think Captain Robau was pretty cool, for the record...

I just think the ship didn't conform to pre-timewarp events. Everything after 2233/4 was changed... but stuff PRIOR to 2233/4 was the same right?

Then how could the ship be bigger than the Constitution Class which was supposed to be the biggest ship?

While Gene Roddenberry is dead, all the way until Nemesis, you didn't see rocket like exhaust shoot out the backs of the warp-nacelles...

And the reason why I state that the ship could not separate was because if they could, you'd figure in these circumstances they probably would! Plus the whole idea of twin-hulls was so that they could separate the primary hull as a lifeboat.


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Old June 16 2009, 07:16 PM   #28
Hartzilla2007
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post

Then how could the ship be bigger than the Constitution Class which was supposed to be the biggest ship?
When and were was it ever stated the the Constitution was the biggest ship?
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Old June 16 2009, 07:27 PM   #29
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
Even though the ship has two hulls (engineering and primary), apparently the primary hull is incapable of separating, and acting as a lifeboat as was the intentions of Matt Jeffries.

The ship also does not appear to have any conventional lifeboats and instead just has shitloads of shuttlecraft which are used apparently as lifeboats.

The ship (due to the lack of a separating saucer or lifeboats, and instead requiring buttloads of shuttles) is apparently monstrous in size just looking at the shuttlebay. I think I also saw a size comparison of the new Enterprise with the USS Kelvin and it also reflected that the Kelvin was a very large vessel, and when in combination with the 800-man crew, in most likelyhood, is larger than the (original) Constitution-Class (Which as of 2265, 32 years after the Kelvin's destruction, was the largest class of ship in the Federation inventory)

The engineering-hull looks quite small in size (not to mention, it looks like the bridge would be in the way of the deflector field) compared to the primary hull.

The warp-engine looks gigantically oversized, and the back has a glowing blue exhaust even when not at warp (Considering the ship has regular impulse engines, the argument that this is an impulse engine is moot). Gene Roddenberry specifically said when he created Star Trek that he did *NOT* want to see flamin' rocket-like exhaust shooting out the back of the ship (granted he also said he wanted warp-engines in pairs but that view actually seems to have varied over time) something which has been maintained all the way up to Star Trek Nemesis (which in my opinion sucked)

The interior of the ship looks completely trashy and junky, particularly that gigantic elevator shaft that extends right down into the shuttlebay if I recall. In every Starfleet ship shown in Star Trek, even the NX-01 Enterprise did not look that crude, trashy and junky, nor did it have a long giant elevator shaft hanging down all the way into the shuttlebay like that. The turbolifts always seemed to be "behind doors" and you never actually saw the elevator shaft.

The point-defense cannons the ship has was never seen on any other Federation-Ship, and the sheer number of overall weapons was ludicrous for that timeframe.


While this isn't really a complaint, or a gripe about the Kelvin, I am wondering why the Kelvin didn't blow up after just one volley, or just one shot for that matter.

The Constitution Class vessel shown in TOS had been refitted two or three times from when it was first commissioned and was in most likelyhood fitted with far more powerful shields and weapons.

The Refit Enterprise in TMP, had substantially more powerful deflectors than the TOS Enterprise, and apparently it would seem that it's force-fields were several times more powerful than the K'Tinga's which themselves had more shielding and deflectors than the D-7's which were about rivalable to the Constitution-Class.

The Refit Enterprise first flew in 2272 or 2273, and Nero's ship, while not a fleet-vessel (Romulan in this case) would have most likely been around during the Dominion war, and during wars even transport ships are often fitted with guns, generally ones that can at least do a little bit of damage to defend themselves against hostiles. Considering Nero's ship was from 2387, 114 or 115 years after the Enterprise Refit (TMP), in which time, shields, and weapons technology has increased DRASTICALLY (Particularly during the dominion war and conflicts the Federation had with the Borg)

The difference in shielding capability and weapons capability the Kelvin would have had would have been virtually nonexistant compared to the Narada, and I'm just amazed the ship didn't get cut up in one volley...


CuttingEdge100
um.. Stop, just stop. You're talking about the advantages and disadvantages of a fictional ship that hasn't been built with technologies that don't exist. Doesn't that set of some flags in your head that maybe you need to sit down, smoke a blunt and eat a bowl of ice cream? Have Trek fans become this Anal? I had no problems with the ship because. IT DOESN'T Actually exist. You do realize that Starship design in Star Trek is one of the most unrealistic things about Star Trek. I mean how does the Deflector system work when the ship has a shelf over it in the primary hull? How far out does the Deflector cone go and when does it's effectiveness become comprimised?

Why do you need two Warp Nacelles to create a warp bubble around the ship? I never understood that especially when other stronger space warp (fold) theories have one fold engine inside the ship creating the fold pocket.


There's more but I don't need to dig out my geek card yet.
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Old June 16 2009, 07:37 PM   #30
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Re: What I Don't Like About the USS Kelvin

Jeri wrote: View Post
Well, you can just forget it; there's nothing to dislike about the Kelvin.

She did seem to have a rather fetching chain of command. And a cute doctor.
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