RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,116
Posts: 5,400,732
Members: 24,744
Currently online: 448
Newest member: Ohwowmelody

TrekToday headlines

Trek Merchandise Sale
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek #39 Villain Revealed
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Trek Big Bang Figures
By: T'Bonz on Aug 28

Star Trek Seekers Cover Art
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Fan Film Axanar Kickstarter Success
By: T'Bonz on Aug 27

Two New Starship Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Actor Wins Emmy
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

Trek Retro Watches
By: T'Bonz on Aug 26

New DS9 eBook To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25

Trek Ice Cube Maker and Shot Glasses
By: T'Bonz on Aug 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 16 2009, 06:34 AM   #46
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

S.H.I.E.L.D. or H.A.M.M.E.R.?

I can see a return to S.H.I.E.L.D. easy enough, but changing the letterheads and stationary back again is going to cost another Billion Dollars the US Government doesn't have... Don't even get me started about the uniforms? Did they recycle the last ones into some sort of womb or just dump a hundred thousand blue bulletproof fatigues on the door step of the salvation army? If the all the Bums and hobos were bullet proof, that would change the pecking order on the streets some what, wouldn't it?

More likely they were probably sold to some third world dictatorship who is going to cause problems down the line, if Steve doesn't buy them back at a substantial loss since it's hardly fair to talk about escrow to countries without paved roads or (even) 20th century healthcare, that maybe Steve would want to lose money on any such deal if he could suggest where these monies be spent instead of an aggressive military bent on a warfooting because of Norman osborn's on pressurings before hand?
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 06:37 AM   #47
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

Newski wrote: View Post
Kestrel wrote: View Post

You mean like working with your archetypical brainwashed assassin, letting him grow and develop into the man he could have been? Letting him struggle internally, trying hard to live up to the ideals of his once-mentor - and pretty much succeeding? You mean that sort of development, where a pitiless killer pulls himself up by his bootstraps into an actual hero?
The point was he was built around being this troubled person, he was designed to be this darker edgier character, tailor made for a generation raised on The Punisher and other anti heroes. A generation who is more interested in how much heroes cry than anything else.
i liked it when they met. Frank was scared of him a little. Bucky must have some serious street cred as the Winter Soldier to leave Frank Castle focussed on diplomacy with his mouth.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 07:02 AM   #48
Hermiod
Admiral
 
Hermiod's Avatar
 
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

Kestrel wrote: View Post
And blaming Jean for Scott's infidelity is weak sauce and classic blame-the-woman thinking. What makes it worse is he tried to excuse it because it's telepathic and therefore not real. The hell? Buddy, your wife is a telepath!
Yeah, so maybe, just maybe, she might have picked up on the fact that ignoring your husband is not the way to preserve your marriage.

No, as an excuse "it wasn't real" doesn't really wash. "You won't even take your clothes off around me anymore" does.

Leaving aside that though, the Scott/Jean romance is in the Top Five Ever of superhero stories, so how can you say breaking that up is the first interesting thing to happen to the character? Did you enjoy breaking up Peter/MJ also?
1) Who said I enjoyed it ? 2) No, because I actually like Peter and MJ.
Hermiod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 11:16 AM   #49
Thespeckledkiwi
Vice Admiral
 
Location: TheBolianChef is no more! It's theSpeckledKiwi now!
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

Hell Martian Manhunter and Superman-2 is coming back ><

But I'm not surprised. Though Thor did an excellent job with Captain.
Thespeckledkiwi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 12:56 PM   #50
Mr Light
Admiral
 
Location: Pennsylvania
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

That was a hilarious thought experiment, Guy I think we've found the premise for the next huge summer crossover: HOBO SHIELD.
__________________

Mr Light is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 01:43 PM   #51
Kestrel
Vice Admiral
 
Kestrel's Avatar
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

Hermiod wrote: View Post
Kestrel wrote: View Post
And blaming Jean for Scott's infidelity is weak sauce and classic blame-the-woman thinking. What makes it worse is he tried to excuse it because it's telepathic and therefore not real. The hell? Buddy, your wife is a telepath!
Yeah, so maybe, just maybe, she might have picked up on the fact that ignoring your husband is not the way to preserve your marriage.

No, as an excuse "it wasn't real" doesn't really wash. "You won't even take your clothes off around me anymore" does.
Noted that Jean wasn't a saint either, but only one member of the couple actively had an affair. With a stacked telepath who has a history of seduction and is an old enemy of yourself and your wife's. Scott knows better, or he should know better, than to turn to Emma Frost for marriage counseling - how about Charles Xavier, hmm? Scott feels ignored? Confront Jean about it. Your marriage vows don't say "as long as she's satisfying your carnal needs as a man," they say in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. And if he's really so fed up and disgusted, he can divorce herm then move on to the next attractive telepath. The man who could hold freakin' Apocalypse in his head, who is lauded for his impressive willpower and self control, and who abandoned his wife and young child for Jean... couldn't figure out a way to keep it in his pants longer than he did?

Hermiod wrote: View Post
Kestrel wrote: View Post
Leaving aside that though, the Scott/Jean romance is in the Top Five Ever of superhero stories, so how can you say breaking that up is the first interesting thing to happen to the character? Did you enjoy breaking up Peter/MJ also?
1) Who said I enjoyed it ? 2) No, because I actually like Peter and MJ.
Oh. That's a fair point about not liking it, and one I'd not really considered. Sorry. And sorry about the Peter/MJ cheap shot, but good to see we agree on that.
__________________
"If Romeo had just masturbated a couple of times a week he would have saved both those nice families a heap of trouble."
Kestrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 01:53 PM   #52
Hermiod
Admiral
 
Hermiod's Avatar
 
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Noted that Jean wasn't a saint either, but only one member of the couple actively had an affair. With a stacked telepath who has a history of seduction and is an old enemy of yourself and your wife's. Scott knows better, or he should know better, than to turn to Emma Frost for marriage counseling - how about Charles Xavier, hmm? Scott feels ignored? Confront Jean about it. Your marriage vows don't say "as long as she's satisfying your carnal needs as a man," they say in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health. And if he's really so fed up and disgusted, he can divorce herm then move on to the next attractive telepath. The man who could hold freakin' Apocalypse in his head, who is lauded for his impressive willpower and self control, and who abandoned his wife and young child for Jean... couldn't figure out a way to keep it in his pants longer than he did?
The dialogue, if I am remembering it right, was not so much that she wouldn't have sex with him, but that she would happily parade around in her underwear with others yet she was covering herself up when they were alone. There's something wrong there. I'm not clearing Scott of any responsibility here but I'm not treating it as some huge betrayal either.

Honestly, I don't think he made a particularly wise choice either way. As both his wife and his mistress were telepaths and he isn't, honesty only ever has to run one way.

Oh. That's a fair point about not liking it, and one I'd not really considered. Sorry. And sorry about the Peter/MJ cheap shot, but good to see we agree on that.
Spider-Man is my favourite comic book character, even above Ms. Marvel. The only thing good that came out of breaking him and MJ up was the brief moment of squee! (the sort of fangirlish reaction us manly male comic book fans don't approve of) that came out of him asking Ms. Marvel out on a date.
Hermiod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 07:27 PM   #53
Nick Ryder
Fleet Captain
 
Nick Ryder's Avatar
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI Da Brew City
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

Well, I think in someways Jean, being a telepath, should have known that Scott really wanted more of out their relationship. I thought they were, as it was said umpteenmillion times in the comics "we're telepathically bonded on levels few could ever touch" so how come she didn't know that he wanted more intimacy and hell, some more of the eyeball scorching sexy Jean that used to wear tight short mini dresses and prance around their bedroom in her undies or less? I have to agree a bit with Scott, sure he's a douche, but he had a point. Jean at that point was wearing roll neck sweaters constantly, slightly baggy pants and wasn't really drawn that glamorously. Sure I can see her possibly being tired of "hearing" people go "wow that's a great ass." or "she's got a nice pair... wonder if they're real?" or "hoochie mama mutie or no I'd hit it!" But c'mon I thought she and Scott had this lovey dovey kinda relationship that "exceeded all boundries, we're soul mates!"

Honestly I've found Emma to be a far more interesting character and partner to Scott than Jean ever was really. Plus, they were married for how long and still they haven't had a kid? I mean c'mon... they were married since the early 90s (X-Men #30!) and they STILL haven't had Rachel or some kid by that time? Look how quickly Scotty knocked up Maddy! Or is that why he was having a telepathic affair with Emma? They had sex on birthdays and anniversaries only?

Now back on the topic of Captain America ... I really didn't see much problem with Bucky taking on the mantle, even though I miss Steve and I think if they bring him back and keep Bucky as Cap, that's not bad really. I think Steve Rogers is the legendary character, Cap is just the suit and the moniker he uses when he throws his mighty sheild. but he's more than that.

Heh... President Steve Rogers! I said it first... Cap will run for Prez or be head of SHIELD OR... he'll be the Captain again. And leave Cap A for Bucky
__________________
"Here you are in the club with your bottle full of Bud, you got grillz you got bling, but playa you don't know a thing..." Alice Cooper - Disco Bloodbath Boogie Fever
Nick Ryder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 09:31 PM   #54
CaptainCanada
Admiral
 
CaptainCanada's Avatar
 
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Black widow is almost 70. Bucky is only that old on paper. He's spent most of the last 8 decades sleeping, even if the Super... Wait? Bucky wasn't a Super Soilder? How the hell did he survive being frozen after he fell off the skulls rocket?
He wasn't frozen; the Soviets recovered him only hours after he went into the water.
__________________
"I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are!"

- Homer Simpson
CaptainCanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 09:44 PM   #55
Mr Light
Admiral
 
Location: Pennsylvania
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

I just finished reading the first "Death of Captain America" trade. It was confusing in parts, they really should have put a recap at the front. Why is the Red Skull in some Russian general's mind? Who is the fat bearded dude working with Red Skull and why? Since when does the Skull have a hot daughter? How did Bucky get ressurected? ... Reading the death issue for the first time it's pretty damn suspicious. Cap gets shot in the gut a few times and then is rushed off-screen where he is then pronounced dead. Then when we see the body it's this mummified age accelerated messed up corpse. Seems pretty clear he was whisked away and replaced with a body. I would imagine Nick Fury was behind it since they were saying that Fury blanked out camera coverage of the event so they wouldn't know how he was planning to rescue Cap. Looks like he did!
__________________

Mr Light is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 10:16 PM   #56
CaptainCanada
Admiral
 
CaptainCanada's Avatar
 
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

Mr Light wrote: View Post
Why is the Red Skull in some Russian general's mind?
General Lukin had the Skull assassinated in order to steal the cosmic cube from him in #1 of the series; it was revealed in #14 that, since the Skull was holding the cube at the moment of his death, he used it to transfer his mind into Lukin's. They've been stuck together ever since.
Who is the fat bearded dude working with Red Skull and why?
Doctor Faustus (a supervillain who specializes in psychological warfare), long-time Captain America villain, though his appearances in the current story are his first in about a decade and a half (since he was seemingly killed at the time).
Since when does the Skull have a hot daughter?
Sin was a villain during the Mark Gruenwald era in the 1980s; like Faustus, hadn't appeared for a good while until Brubaker brought her back from limbo.
How did Bucky get ressurected?
He was revealed to have never been dead. He was blown clear of the exploding drone, minus one of his arms, and fell into the sea; a Soviet submarine recovered him (thinking he might have the supersoldier serum in him). He didn't have the serum, but they brainwashed him for use as an assassin anyway; he spent the next 50+ years alternating between performing missions and be held in stasis.
I would imagine Nick Fury was behind it since they were saying that Fury blanked out camera coverage of the event so they wouldn't know how he was planning to rescue Cap. Looks like he did!
No. Nick Fury thinks he's dead.
__________________
"I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are!"

- Homer Simpson
CaptainCanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 10:50 PM   #57
Thrall
Commodore
 
Thrall's Avatar
 
Location: A Quesada Free Zone.
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

You do realize that "Scotty the Adulterer" is an (unfortunate) history of his, right? I mean, I love Cyclops, but it's kinda hard to ignore the fact that he has an unhappy history with telepaths. It sucks, because otherwise Slim is pretty much a paragon of virtue, but not an annoying paladin-type.
Scott never left Maddie for Jean. That's a myth that's been put forth by Morrison drones to justify his run. If they had bothered to even read those actual issues of X-Factor they would be surprised to discover that Maddie left him. She broke up with him and kicked him out of the house because he wouldn't give up being an X-Man. He and Jean didn't even get back together until he thought Maddie had been killed. Of course, when she came back she was The Gobblin Queen by that point so there was going to be no reconciliation.
__________________
"Spider-Man doesn't have fans. He has people who follow him. Like Jesus. Now I have fans! People who adore and worship every little thing I do or say. Like David Koresh. Or The Jonas Brothers."
Thrall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 11:16 PM   #58
Kestrel
Vice Admiral
 
Kestrel's Avatar
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

Hermiod wrote: View Post
The only thing good that came out of breaking him and MJ up was the brief moment of squee! (the sort of fangirlish reaction us manly male comic book fans don't approve of) that came out of him asking Ms. Marvel out on a date.


NickRyder wrote: View Post
Honestly I've found Emma to be a far more interesting character and partner to Scott than Jean ever was really. Plus, they were married for how long and still they haven't had a kid? I mean c'mon... they were married since the early 90s (X-Men #30!) and they STILL haven't had Rachel or some kid by that time? Look how quickly Scotty knocked up Maddy! Or is that why he was having a telepathic affair with Emma? They had sex on birthdays and anniversaries only?
Oh, but we wouldn't want to make Scott and Jean look old, now would we? I mean, being married is bad enough, but having children?!

Kidding aside, I love how Cyclops has grown from fresh-faced neophyte to basically the senior statesmen of the X-Men in his lifetime.

NickRyder wrote: View Post
Heh... President Steve Rogers! I said it first... Cap will run for Prez or be head of SHIELD OR... he'll be the Captain again. And leave Cap A for Bucky
I'd be on board for Steve Rogers, Director of SHIELD! Or as President... we could have the first comic book featuring an ass-kicking President as the main character! Wait... what's that... you mean personally kicking ass and taking names shouldn't be the President's main focus? Oh...

Thrall wrote: View Post
Scott never left Maddie for Jean. That's a myth that's been put forth by Morrison drones to justify his run. If they had bothered to even read those actual issues of X-Factor they would be surprised to discover that Maddie left him. She broke up with him and kicked him out of the house because he wouldn't give up being an X-Man. He and Jean didn't even get back together until he thought Maddie had been killed. Of course, when she came back she was The Gobblin Queen by that point so there was going to be no reconciliation.
Guhh... whut? That's a complete mischaracterization of what happened, since Scott's "wouldn't give up being an X-Man" thread was all about obsessing over his dead girlfriend.

Here. From Chris Claremont, the man who gave us the Phoenix Saga...

Asked about his intended plans for Madelyne's character, Claremont said:
“ The original Madelyne storyline was that, at its simplest level, she was that one in a million shot that just happened to look like Jean [Grey, a.k.a. the first Phoenix]! And the relationship was summed up by the moment when Scott says: "Are you Jean?" And she punches him! That was in Uncanny X-Men #174. Because her whole desire was to be loved for herself not to be loved as the evocation of her boyfriend's dead sweetheart. I mean, it's a classical theme. You can go back to a whole host of 30's films, 40's, Hitchcock films - but it all got invalidated by the resurrection of Jean Grey in X-Factor #1. The original plotline was that Scott marries Madelyne, they have their child, they go off to Alaska, he goes to work for his grandparents, he retires from the X-Men. He's a reserve member. He's available for emergencies. He comes back on special occasions, for special fights, but he has a life. He has grown up. He has grown out of the monastery; he is in the real world now. He has a child. He has maybe more than one child. It's a metaphor for us all. We all grow up. We all move on.
Scott was going to move on. Jean was dead get on with your life. And it was close to be a happy ending. They lived happily ever after, and it was to create the impression that maybe if you came back in ten years, other X-Men would have grown up and out, too. Would Kitty stay with the team forever? Would Nightcrawler? Would any of them? Because that way we could evolve them into new directions, we could bring in new characters. There would be an ongoing sense of renewal, and growth and change in a positive sense.
Then, unfortunately, Jean was resurrected, Scott dumps his wife and kid and goes back to the old girlfriend. So it not only destroys Scott's character as a hero and as a decent human being it creates an untenable structural situation: what do we do with Madelyne and the kid? ... So ultimately the resolution was: turn her into the Goblin Queen and kill her off.[4] ^ Tegneserier: An interview with Chris Claremont, seriejournalen.dk
(shameless borrowed from Wiki)

Is Chris Claremont a Morrison Drone?
__________________
"If Romeo had just masturbated a couple of times a week he would have saved both those nice families a heap of trouble."
Kestrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 11:44 PM   #59
Mr Light
Admiral
 
Location: Pennsylvania
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

Where has Nick Fury said that he knows Cap is dead? Could he be lying? Also I believe I read somewhere that Thor has talked to Cap's spirit in the afterlife is that true? Of course they also showed Mockingbird in hell after she died but then Secret Invasion showed she was alive, a-right?
__________________

Mr Light is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 16 2009, 11:47 PM   #60
CaptainCanada
Admiral
 
CaptainCanada's Avatar
 
Location: Kingston, Ontario, Canada
Re: Captain America... Spoilers

Mr Light wrote: View Post
Where has Nick Fury said that he knows Cap is dead? Could he be lying?
In the first issue of Secret Warriors Fury is standing completely alone in front of Captain America's Arlington grave, talking to the monument/himself about what he's going to do next.
Also I believe I read somewhere that Thor has talked to Cap's spirit in the afterlife is that true? Of course they also showed Mockingbird in hell after she died but then Secret Invasion showed she was alive, a-right?
Thor did indeed talk with Steve's ghost/spectre; they consulted with Brubaker on the specifics of that issue.
__________________
"I'm a white male, age 18 to 49. Everyone listens to me, no matter how dumb my suggestions are!"

- Homer Simpson
CaptainCanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
captain america, comics, impeach queseda

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.