Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's core?

RicardoHead · June 13 2009, 01:08 AM

Removing because of the PC wankers who whine above every damn thing at this site.

Plecostomus · June 13 2009, 01:10 AM

I think he was going for the cruel angry sadist "ponder your fate and suffer" angle more than practical planet-wrecking.

Lt. Trull · June 13 2009, 01:17 AM

could be that red matter has to be in close contact or touching the substance being sucked into the red/black hole.... once that particular matter is gobbled... it ceases to exist.

Amra · June 13 2009, 01:50 AM

I just assumed you need the red matter to come in contact with a gravity well. And the Narada looked big enough to have its own substantial gravity well; or at least an artificial gravity well.

PSEUDO-SCIENCE!

Nerys Ghemor · June 13 2009, 01:52 AM

The novelization says that the red matter needed the extreme heat at the core of a planet to act as a catalyst.

(In the case of the Narada, I'm betting the red matter used the ship's warp core.)

rbnn · June 13 2009, 02:01 AM

Nerys Ghemor wrote:

The novelization says that the red matter needed the extreme heat at the core of a planet to act as a catalyst.

(In the case of the Narada, I'm betting the red matter used the ship's warp core.)

Seems like the gravity well is also necessary, or at least zero gravity. Otherwise one could probably just enclose the red matter in a thermite bomb or similar device on the surface of the planet.

Because the red matter creates a singularity, it does not seem anomalous to me that it would require some specific local space-time geometry to function.

It's natural to speculate that it must be surrounded by large amounts of matter or it would dissipate, but this hypothesis would not be consistent with its ignition and singularity-creation at the Narada, which has orders of magnitude less mass than a planet.

Thus, I believe the zero-gravity plus high-heat conjunction comprises the most plausible requisite conditions for red-matter induced singularity creation.

Jeri · June 13 2009, 02:12 AM

Nerys Ghemor wrote:

The novelization says that the red matter needed the extreme heat at the core of a planet to act as a catalyst.

(In the case of the Narada, I'm betting the red matter used the ship's warp core.)

The red matter used the Jellyfish blowing up in collision with the Narada. The ship's computer warned Spock about that when he set the collision course.

Sparky · June 13 2009, 02:14 AM

^^^ you have to remember that on the Narada it was the entire amount of red matter ignited and not just a small drop.

rbnn · June 13 2009, 02:17 AM

Also, for motivation consider tokamak operation, where fusion requires plasma magnetic suspension. The red matter likewise might require suspension for activation, just gravitational not magnetic.

Recall as well the question as the volume of a sphere in 3 dimensions at the start. Perhaps the red matter must have spherical symmetry over a period of time (in addition to high temperature); for a liquid to maintain spherical symmetry, it typically must be in null gravity, like in the center of a planet.

Jeri · June 13 2009, 02:48 AM

Sparky wrote:

^^^ you have to remember that on the Narada it was the entire amount of red matter ignited and not just a small drop.

The book doesn't limit it to a planet core or super nova. It only requires "enough" heat.

Red matter floats commonly and harmlessly in the cold of space until it encounters a heat source -- and then presumably makes black holes around the galaxy.

roguephoenix · June 13 2009, 04:04 AM

it could also be a matter of presentation. you have to remember he was out for revenge. he wanted it to be... "delicious." certainly if i was going to destroy a planet it would be "delicious" to see it cave in on itself and have the new black hole be where the planet used to be as a reminder of what was done and who did it. you know how killers have a certain way of killing people sometimes? they don't just kill in every which way, they have a method. why? it's what gives them pleasure. it's not necessarily the most efficient or effective nor the only means by far, but it's the way they wanted to do it. same goes for nero, i think.

gimpy117 · June 13 2009, 04:20 AM

Sparky wrote:

^^^ you have to remember that on the Narada it was the entire amount of red matter ignited and not just a small drop.

why did they need that much anyways??

why not send the jellyfish with one or two drops instead of a bunch as shown...is the vulcan high command into overkill? isn't that just illogical?

Jeri · June 13 2009, 04:23 AM

gimpy117 wrote:

why did they need that much anyways?? why not send the jellyfish with one or two drops instead of a bunch as shown...is the vulcan high command into overkill? isn't that just illogical?

No; as I said about a month ago, they probably didn't know how much it might take to quell the super nova. It was an extraordinary super nova. They'd start with a little and continue with a lot, if necessary.

gimpy117 · June 13 2009, 04:44 AM

Jeri wrote:

gimpy117 wrote:

why did they need that much anyways?? why not send the jellyfish with one or two drops instead of a bunch as shown...is the vulcan high command into overkill? isn't that just illogical?

No; as I said about a month ago, they probably didn't know how much it might take to quell the super nova. It was an extraordinary super nova. They'd start with a little and continue with a lot, if necessary.

you'd think if the Vulcans could engineer a substance that could make a black hole they could calculate how much they needed...

Qued · June 13 2009, 04:55 AM

My question is how did they calculate when it was going to hit Romulus so bad? Spock: "I was too late..." WTF??? I could understand being off by a light year or two but that much? I say this because you would think that Spock would be dropping off the red matter several light years away from Romulus so that it wouldn't effect the planet. But yet Spock was flying straight to Romulus. Talk about miscalculating.

June 13 2009, 01:08 AM	#1
RicardoHead Fleet Captain Location: Ape City	Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's core? Removing because of the PC wankers who whine above every damn thing at this site. Last edited by RicardoHead; June 13 2009 at 05:11 PM.

June 13 2009, 01:10 AM	#2
Plecostomus Commodore Location: Official forum sex god	Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co I think he was going for the cruel angry sadist "ponder your fate and suffer" angle more than practical planet-wrecking.

June 13 2009, 01:17 AM	#3
Lt. Trull Fleet Captain Location: Mining colony Sol Asteroid belt, Sol System	Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co could be that red matter has to be in close contact or touching the substance being sucked into the red/black hole.... once that particular matter is gobbled... it ceases to exist. __________________ Either: Christianity. Erradicting more interesting Religions for more than 2000 years! - or - Knowledge is Power! Power Corrupts! Study Hard! Be Evil!

June 13 2009, 01:50 AM	#4
Amra Ensign	Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co I just assumed you need the red matter to come in contact with a gravity well. And the Narada looked big enough to have its own substantial gravity well; or at least an artificial gravity well. PSEUDO-SCIENCE!

June 13 2009, 01:52 AM	#5
Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Location: Cardăsa Terăm--Nerys Ghemor	Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co The novelization says that the red matter needed the extreme heat at the core of a planet to act as a catalyst. (In the case of the Narada, I'm betting the red matter used the ship's warp core.) __________________ Are you a Cardassian fan, citizen? Prove your loyalty--check out my fanfic universe, Star Trek: Sigils and Unions. Or keep the faith on my AU Cardassia, Sigils and Unions: Catacombs of Oralius!

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June 13 2009, 02:14 AM	#8
Sparky Commodore Location: Calgary, Alberta. Canuckistan	Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co ^^^ you have to remember that on the Narada it was the entire amount of red matter ignited and not just a small drop. __________________ January 2, 1955 - January 23, 2012. Love you Dad. Keep pedalling towards those planes.

June 13 2009, 02:17 AM	#9
rbnn Lieutenant	Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co Also, for motivation consider tokamak operation, where fusion requires plasma magnetic suspension. The red matter likewise might require suspension for activation, just gravitational not magnetic. Recall as well the question as the volume of a sphere in 3 dimensions at the start. Perhaps the red matter must have spherical symmetry over a period of time (in addition to high temperature); for a liquid to maintain spherical symmetry, it typically must be in null gravity, like in the center of a planet. Last edited by rbnn; June 13 2009 at 02:34 AM.

June 13 2009, 04:04 AM	#11
roguephoenix Captain	Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co it could also be a matter of presentation. you have to remember he was out for revenge. he wanted it to be... "delicious." certainly if i was going to destroy a planet it would be "delicious" to see it cave in on itself and have the new black hole be where the planet used to be as a reminder of what was done and who did it. you know how killers have a certain way of killing people sometimes? they don't just kill in every which way, they have a method. why? it's what gives them pleasure. it's not necessarily the most efficient or effective nor the only means by far, but it's the way they wanted to do it. same goes for nero, i think. __________________ Please have mercy! No more Wolvercrap! Or Twitlight! (yes that's how it should be spelled)

June 13 2009, 04:55 AM	#15
Qued Ensign	Re: Planet swallowing Black Holes need to originate in the planet's co My question is how did they calculate when it was going to hit Romulus so bad? Spock: "I was too late..." WTF??? I could understand being off by a light year or two but that much? I say this because you would think that Spock would be dropping off the red matter several light years away from Romulus so that it wouldn't effect the planet. But yet Spock was flying straight to Romulus. Talk about miscalculating.