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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

View Poll Results: Chakotay / Seven pairing gets:
Thumbs up! 21 17.80%
Thumbs down! 97 82.20%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 15 2009, 09:12 AM   #91
Zameaze
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Oh, building-block stuff. Ok, I gotcha. Well, two out of three I agree are always essential, that's conflict and action. I would argue that resolution is the one element that you could conceivably go without and still have a good story. Not often, not even every now and again, but once in a blue moon, leaving a story unresolved can be effective I think. The only example I can think of, off the top of my head, is the end of Joss Whedon's "Angel." Or, and this one's actually better, 2001: A Space Odyssey.
I can't speak to "Angel", but "2001: A Space Odyssey", both the book and the movie, had resolution all the way through, scene by scene.
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Old June 15 2009, 10:20 AM   #92
Kirk1980
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

This went off the topic a bit but....

Man, C/7 was just...dull. It's like when they paired Phil Simms with Jim Nantz. Dull and dull. 7's intriguing qualities come when she plays off more emotional people. Chakotay was just dull. 7's dull with dull people.

As always, this is just my thought on the matter. Relax and breathe out before you post that I suck:P
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Old June 15 2009, 01:50 PM   #93
kimc
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Maybe the resolution of J/C was that they both decided the situation they were in precluded a healthy romantic relationship due to their respective positions?
That certainly is reasonable which is why I'm more of a "post-Endgame" J/Cer. Emotions can only be stuffed for so long and after all those years I can't see J & C keeping their hands off each other long enough to reach spacedock. Must be the Italian in me.

As for Seven she deserves more than to be Chakotay's second choice. Once she grows into her new-found emotions and is ready for a relationship I'm sure she'd have her pick.

I'm not reading the Trek books and don't consider them part of Voyager's story.
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Old June 15 2009, 05:10 PM   #94
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Imagine some young over educated blonde pretty firm Kennedy, yes, one of the real ones, maybe a first cousin, married a Bin Ladin 35 years her senior? Yes, one of the real Bin Ladins, maybe a first cousin?

Patty Hearst should really have sued TPTB since these people kinda just stole her life story out from under her.
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Old June 15 2009, 07:27 PM   #95
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

As 7 is not fully actualized she would not be the equal Chakotay would require for an adult relationship. If he wanted to adopt her - sure he could nurture and raise her up. But a romantic relationship would be too lopsided.
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Old June 16 2009, 11:12 PM   #96
andersonh1
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

kimc wrote: View Post
Like someone above already said, "Human Error" pretty much ruined Seven's chances of a normal life. In fact, according to a Braga interview on the Season 7 dvd "Human Error" was setting up a tragic arc for Seven where she would die to save the ship in the finale.
I just watched Endgame, and Seven of Nine asks the Doctor to go through with the procedure to remove the Borg implant that inhibits her emotions. Unless I'm just misremembering the scene, the Doctor seems to think it will be fairly simply and they proceed right away. So Seven's emotional inhibition is gone partway through the episode.

Now I'll have to break out the DVD and see if I'm remembering the scene correctly or not.

I saw that interview with Braga on the DVD, and frankly I'm glad they didn't kill Seven off, or any of the other main characters. What a downer that would have been.

Putting that aside one way they could have done it was to go ahead with the original "Workforce" idea where Chakotay was Janeway's lover on Quarra. This would have given the characters an arc going into the finale where they decide where they stand after coming back to the ship. If the Quarra relationship ended up demonstrating "all the reasons we should just be friends" then that would have been the end of J/C and they could have paired Chakotay with someone else.
That's not a bad idea at all. I'd have enjoyed seeing that, though it would have involved some major plot restructuring from what ended up onscreen.
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Old June 17 2009, 06:21 PM   #97
Fish1941
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Tachyon wrote: View Post
There is no way C/7 can be given a positive spin. There was "hot mess" written all over it. I am biased, however.


Yes, you certainly are.


I saw nothing wrong with C/7. It's not my favorite pairing, but I refused to act as if its existence was the end of the world.
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Old June 17 2009, 07:24 PM   #98
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

but it was. They got together and the show finished. Those two events have to be connected? And the following show, and movie both seemed to be set in alternate universes which demand that such a foul and unnatural union might never take place.

The universe is talking to us, so listen up.
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Old June 17 2009, 08:34 PM   #99
Tachyon
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Preach Guy!

And Fish - who the eff said it was the end of the world?
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Old June 17 2009, 08:37 PM   #100
kimc
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

andersonh1 wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
Like someone above already said, "Human Error" pretty much ruined Seven's chances of a normal life. In fact, according to a Braga interview on the Season 7 dvd "Human Error" was setting up a tragic arc for Seven where she would die to save the ship in the finale.
I just watched Endgame, and Seven of Nine asks the Doctor to go through with the procedure to remove the Borg implant that inhibits her emotions. Unless I'm just misremembering the scene, the Doctor seems to think it will be fairly simply and they proceed right away. So Seven's emotional inhibition is gone partway through the episode.

Now I'll have to break out the DVD and see if I'm remembering the scene correctly or not.
Oh, you're remembering it correctly. The thing is during "Human Error" the procedure was a very difficult one. Suddenly a few episodes later in "Endgame" it's a piece of cake?

You know I disagree with critics about inconsistency in Voyager for the main part but I have to start agreeing with them when it comes to Season 7.
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Old June 17 2009, 08:41 PM   #101
teya
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

kimc wrote: View Post
andersonh1 wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
Like someone above already said, "Human Error" pretty much ruined Seven's chances of a normal life. In fact, according to a Braga interview on the Season 7 dvd "Human Error" was setting up a tragic arc for Seven where she would die to save the ship in the finale.
I just watched Endgame, and Seven of Nine asks the Doctor to go through with the procedure to remove the Borg implant that inhibits her emotions. Unless I'm just misremembering the scene, the Doctor seems to think it will be fairly simply and they proceed right away. So Seven's emotional inhibition is gone partway through the episode.

Now I'll have to break out the DVD and see if I'm remembering the scene correctly or not.
Oh, you're remembering it correctly. The thing is during "Human Error" the procedure was a very difficult one. Suddenly a few episodes later in "Endgame" it's a piece of cake?

In "Scorpion," the Doc didn't know if he'd be able to save Janeway or if she'd ever wake up. Ten minutes later, you'd never know she was injured.

Medical miracles are perfectly consistent on Star Trek.
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Old June 17 2009, 08:44 PM   #102
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

teya wrote: View Post
In "Scorpion," the Doc didn't know if he'd be able to save Janeway or if she'd ever wake up. Ten minutes later, you'd never know she was injured.

Medical miracles are perfectly consistent on Star Trek.
The Doctor indicated it was a difficult procedure and the success was uncertain. However, he did know what the procedure was and Chakotay was in command of Voyager for longer than ten minutes.

With the dampening device the doctor didn't know what the procedure was because he wasn't borg. He would have to invent one which one can assume would take a bit more time.
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Old June 17 2009, 08:54 PM   #103
teya
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

kimc wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post
In "Scorpion," the Doc didn't know if he'd be able to save Janeway or if she'd ever wake up. Ten minutes later, you'd never know she was injured.

Medical miracles are perfectly consistent on Star Trek.
The Doctor indicated it was a difficult procedure and the success was uncertain. However, he did know what the procedure was and Chakotay was in command of Voyager for longer than ten minutes.

With the dampening device the doctor didn't know what the procedure was because he wasn't borg. He would have to invent one which one can assume would take a bit more time.
From "Scorpion 2"

EMH: The plasma burns to her thoracic region I can treat, and I've already stopped the internal bleeding. But her neural injuries are going to require some creative thinking.

TUVOK: Before we beamed out, an alien energy discharge struck very near the Captain.

EMH: Well, it appears to have disrupted all her neuroelectrical pathways. I'll have to induce a coma to protect her higher brain functions. But I must tell you, unless I can repair the damage, she may never regain consciousness.
For the record, inducing a coma to protect higher brain function is something we do today. It's not curative, it's preventive. The Doc clearly says here that a cure is going to require "creative thinking."

Lo and behold, long before 1 episode was over, he'd found a cure.
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Old June 17 2009, 08:58 PM   #104
kimc
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

teya wrote: View Post
For the record, inducing a coma to protect higher brain function is something we do today. It's not curative, it's preventive. The Doc clearly says here that a cure is going to require "creative thinking."

Lo and behold, long before 1 episode was over, he'd found a cure.
Like you said inducing a coma was a knowen procedure but you can take the "creative thinking" comment any way. Clearly, doctors had run into damage to neuroelectrical pathways in humans before and the doctor had that to build on.

As for the dampening device this was an entirely new phenomenon.
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Old June 17 2009, 09:00 PM   #105
teya
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Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

kimc wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post
For the record, inducing a coma to protect higher brain function is something we do today. It's not curative, it's preventive. The Doc clearly says here that a cure is going to require "creative thinking."

Lo and behold, long before 1 episode was over, he'd found a cure.
Like you said inducing a coma was a knowen procedure but you can take the "creative thinking" comment any way. Clearly, doctors had run into damage to neuroelectrical pathways in humans before and the doctor had that to build on.

As for the dampening device this was an entirely new phenomenon.
Given that the Doctor had figured out how to reprogram nanoprobes (something that even the Borg couldn't do), I don't find it at all implausible he could figure out how to reprogram an implant.

You apparently do.

We disagree.
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