RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,264
Posts: 5,349,460
Members: 24,614
Currently online: 504
Newest member: robyn

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Ships Of The Line Design Contest
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Next Weekend: Shore Leave 36!
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

True Trek History To Be Penned
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25

Insight Editions Announces Three Trek Books For 2015
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

To Be Takei Review by Spencer Blohm
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Mulgrew: Playing Red
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Hallmark 2015 Trek Ornaments
By: T'Bonz on Jul 24

Funko Mini Spock
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

View Poll Results: Chakotay / Seven pairing gets:
Thumbs up! 21 17.80%
Thumbs down! 97 82.20%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old June 19 2009, 10:13 PM   #166
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

I'm half blind.

I keep misreading the thread title as "Onions on Chakotay and Seven of Nine."

Like as if they'd been thrown into a huge outdoor cooking pot resting atop an open fire by space cannibals.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 10:16 PM   #167
Kestrel
Vice Admiral
 
Kestrel's Avatar
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

kimc wrote: View Post
I'm not sure I'm qualified to say whether Native American sexual ethics are in line with 21st century middle-class American or not.
Paging teya... (Of course, this leaves out that Indian sexual ethics vary from tribe to tribe and individual to individual, much like in any large grouping of different cultures)

Regardless of that that, the sexual ethics of Chakotay's people (or at least the traditionalists that he grew up around) are more likely to be in line with our own than they would be with any 24th Century "free-love" "evolved human" bullshit - sorry, more developed - sexual ethics that probably didn't exist anyway. Because ethics and what's acceptable drift, but Chakotay's people appear to be more likely to hold on to the past standards.

kimc wrote: View Post
Assuming Chakotay was raised with less sexual openness he would have been exposed to other ways once he started at Starfleet Academy.
But he may not have accepted them, may in fact have rejected them. The fact that he rejected Starfleet and joined the Maquis points to that (rejecting societal norms in favor of those more closely aligning to those of your subgroup) beign more likely.

The point I was making - the point that this ultimately ties back to - is that Chakotay would not be likely to dump Seven out of the blue if Janeway suddenly became available because he's not a slimeball - and his definition of slimeball is more likely to be akin to ours than to, say, Tasha Yar's.
__________________
"If Romeo had just masturbated a couple of times a week he would have saved both those nice families a heap of trouble."
Kestrel is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 10:20 PM   #168
Zameaze
Commodore
 
Zameaze's Avatar
 
Location: California
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

^^^And, as of now, 76.36% (of the group, not the space cannibals) are not eating up the C/7 thing.
Zameaze is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 10:23 PM   #169
J. Allen
Best Pony™
 
J. Allen's Avatar
 
Location: United States
Send a message via ICQ to J. Allen Send a message via AIM to J. Allen Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to J. Allen Send a message via Yahoo to J. Allen
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

kimc wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Nothing wrong with imagining what could have been, but we see what is right there on the screen.

J.
At the end of the show C7 were dating, they were not committed. Things could have gone either way after that.
However, there is more to go on with what we saw at the end with Chakotay and Seven than the entire run with Janeway and Chakotay.

J.
__________________
:: :: ::
Visit Brony Kingdom! Don't ask why, just do it.
:: :: ::
-=- I still wish upon stars -=-
J. Allen is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 10:30 PM   #170
teya
Vice Admiral
 
teya's Avatar
 
Location: 2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Kestrel wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
I'm not sure I'm qualified to say whether Native American sexual ethics are in line with 21st century middle-class American or not.
Paging teya... (Of course, this leaves out that Indian sexual ethics vary from tribe to tribe and individual to individual, much like in any large grouping of different cultures)
Actually, this brings up another strike against J/C...

While it's hard to generalize across 500 nations, Native Americans do tend to be more sexually open than the majority culture. Sexuality is celebrated as a part of life, a gift from God.

Celibacy is not good.

This has been an issue with the Catholic church in Latin America. Indigenous men are not going into the priesthood because of the celibacy requirement.

As an Indian man, Chakotay wouldn't be waiting around for Kathryn. While some in the majority culture here might call that romantic, an Indian would call it insane.
__________________
Akoochimoya, my indigenous ass.
teya is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 10:33 PM   #171
freak
Commodore
 
freak's Avatar
 
Location: stationed at NCIS post Voyager.
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

teya wrote: View Post
freak wrote: View Post
Yeah..I don't know about any of you here..but I definitely saw some sparks fly between Janeway and Chakotay sometimes! Perfect episode examples: "Workforce", where Chakotay proves to Janeway that he is who he says he is; "Resolutions", they really hit it off in that one!! Even though it wasn't implied on the show itself..I'd have to believe that they at least tried something; and "Elogium"-in that ep, Janeway asks
Chakotay that "in the future if I have any questions about mating behavior, I'll know where to go". You could cut the sexual tension with a knife on that bridge!
You'd have to be blind not to see the sparks flying between those two!
I can assure you that I am not blind. My powers of observation are quite excellent as a matter of fact.

Just because I don't see things as you do does not make me defective in any way, and frankly, I'm surprised you'd say such a thing.
Ok, teya, I did not nor did I ever refer to YOU yourself being "blind". I was merely stating that the sexual tension was staring the audience in the face even though some of us didn't see that at all. I didn't mean to imply you were "blind". I was merely stating both a fact and an opinion. No hard feelings.
__________________
She's a he, bonehead!!!!!
freak is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 10:42 PM   #172
Orac Zen
Mischief Manager
 
Orac Zen's Avatar
 
Location: Missing him ^
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Tachyon wrote: View Post
Someone actually tries to claim here that there was no attraction between Janeway an Chakotay at all?! Wow. We have a candidate for the joke of the year, folks!
I know someone who says he didn't see any attraction / chemistry whatsoever between Crichton and Aeryn (Farscape). Me? I saw that chemistry sizzle out of the screen from the moment the characters met. (And I'm by no stretch of the imagination a "shipper".) In other words, we saw the same episodes and arrived at completely different viewpoints about what we saw. That isn't a "joke" - of this or any other year; it's just people having different opinions. About a TV show. It happens, and it's not a bad thing.

freak wrote: View Post
You'd have to be blind not to see the sparks flying between those two!
See, I wouldn't think of calling that person I just mentioned "blind" because he didn't see a fictional relationship the same way I did. I watched the same Voyager episodes as everyone else and I saw nothing but friendship between Janeway and chuckles. Nothing more - or less - than that. It certainly wasn't "staring (me) in the face". Clearly you and others see it differently and that's fine - to each their own. It doesn't make anyone who didn't see anything more than a friendship "blind" or in any way incapable of seeing whatever "fact" it is that's so obvious to you and others.

Leaving that aside and getting to the actual topic... I didn't see Seven and chuckles working, either. Maybe if it had had some better buildup (certainly more substantial than Seven's holo-fantasy) or didn't seem so unlikely (given his long-running distrust of her...although stranger things have happened, I suppose), I could have gotten on board with it. Maybe. Others see it differently and that's great.
__________________
Max 2008 - 2013
Orac Zen is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 10:55 PM   #173
freak
Commodore
 
freak's Avatar
 
Location: stationed at NCIS post Voyager.
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Orac Zen: If you see in my recent post, I actually apologized for my mishap..I wasn't calling ANYONE "blind"...just merely stating a fact and opinion about a fictional show. GESSH! This has been blown way out of proportion to the extreme! But I wasn't calling her a blind person for not seeing it, although it probably came out differently to her and to everyone else. I'm gonna get off my soapbox for now though cause it was merely stating an observation..not calling someone a name, although it might have come out differently to others(for that, I'm sorry).
__________________
She's a he, bonehead!!!!!
freak is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 11:04 PM   #174
Kestrel
Vice Admiral
 
Kestrel's Avatar
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

teya wrote: View Post
Kestrel wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
I'm not sure I'm qualified to say whether Native American sexual ethics are in line with 21st century middle-class American or not.
Paging teya... (Of course, this leaves out that Indian sexual ethics vary from tribe to tribe and individual to individual, much like in any large grouping of different cultures)
Actually, this brings up another strike against J/C...

While it's hard to generalize across 500 nations, Native Americans do tend to be more sexually open than the majority culture. Sexuality is celebrated as a part of life, a gift from God.

Celibacy is not good.

This has been an issue with the Catholic church in Latin America. Indigenous men are not going into the priesthood because of the celibacy requirement.

As an Indian man, Chakotay wouldn't be waiting around for Kathryn. While some in the majority culture here might call that romantic, an Indian would call it insane.
Whoops... sounds like I was mischaracterizing from my ignorance, since I was saying Indian traditionalists are likely to be less sexually open. Sorry.

Odd thing is, now I think about it, I'm pretty sure I knew better (friend of mine used to work for various tribes, including the Navajo and Penobscot).
__________________
"If Romeo had just masturbated a couple of times a week he would have saved both those nice families a heap of trouble."
Kestrel is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 11:11 PM   #175
teya
Vice Admiral
 
teya's Avatar
 
Location: 2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Kestrel wrote: View Post
teya wrote: View Post
Kestrel wrote: View Post

Paging teya... (Of course, this leaves out that Indian sexual ethics vary from tribe to tribe and individual to individual, much like in any large grouping of different cultures)
Actually, this brings up another strike against J/C...

While it's hard to generalize across 500 nations, Native Americans do tend to be more sexually open than the majority culture. Sexuality is celebrated as a part of life, a gift from God.

Celibacy is not good.

This has been an issue with the Catholic church in Latin America. Indigenous men are not going into the priesthood because of the celibacy requirement.

As an Indian man, Chakotay wouldn't be waiting around for Kathryn. While some in the majority culture here might call that romantic, an Indian would call it insane.
Whoops... sounds like I was mischaracterizing from my ignorance, since I was saying Indian traditionalists are likely to be less sexually open. Sorry.

Odd thing is, now I think about it, I'm pretty sure I knew better (friend of mine used to work for various tribes, including the Navajo and Penobscot).
Those missionaries used to complain about our lax morals...

No need to be sorry... You reminded me of an old argument I used to use against Chakotay waiting around for Kathryn to become available. It was nice to dust it off again...
__________________
Akoochimoya, my indigenous ass.
teya is offline  
Old June 20 2009, 12:08 AM   #176
Orac Zen
Mischief Manager
 
Orac Zen's Avatar
 
Location: Missing him ^
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

freak wrote: View Post
Orac Zen: If you see in my recent post, I actually apologized for my mishap.
I saw that, and that's fine. I didn't take offence at the comment. The bit I found questionable from that post was the "staring the audience in the face" part - because for plenty of people, it did no such thing - and this:
freak wrote: View Post
[...] and just merely stating a fact
What fact would that be? I'm honestly not being facetious or sarcastic; I'm merely curious. If the "staring the audience in the face" bit is a "fact", then...really, it isn't. If it's something else, I'm not seeing it, and I'd like to.
__________________
Max 2008 - 2013
Orac Zen is offline  
Old June 20 2009, 01:09 AM   #177
crusher
Lieutenant
 
Location: Canada
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

crusher is offline  
Old June 20 2009, 03:16 AM   #178
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Kestrel wrote: View Post
The point I was making - the point that this ultimately ties back to - is that Chakotay would not be likely to dump Seven out of the blue if Janeway suddenly became available because he's not a slimeball - and his definition of slimeball is more likely to be akin to ours than to, say, Tasha Yar's.
Perhaps despite my acknowledgement of sexual openness in the 24th century I have a more traditional view of dating than most folks. To me "dateing" is simply two people spending time together to see if they want to move it up to the next level. Until they're sure of that they may not even mention the dating "relationship" to friends and family but just keep it to themselves.

That was the stage C/7 were at in "Endgame". They were just exploring possibilities. No one knew about it. They shared a couple of social activities and one kiss on screen. That's it.

By the end of the episode no one still knew (except Janeway as part of the Admiral's manipulation plan) and they weren't serious. it's not like they were married or living together or even an acknowledged couple. While letting the other person know they wanted to see other people would be the polite thing to do either one of them could walk away without being a "slimeball".

Geez, if walking away after a few dates means "slimeball" then I think most of us in here would be that!
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline  
Old June 20 2009, 03:21 AM   #179
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

J. Allen wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Nothing wrong with imagining what could have been, but we see what is right there on the screen.

J.
At the end of the show C7 were dating, they were not committed. Things could have gone either way after that.
However, there is more to go on with what we saw at the end with Chakotay and Seven than the entire run with Janeway and Chakotay.

J.
It all depends on how you define "more to go on". J & C had dinner every week in her quarters and it wasn't because they were obligated to. No they never kissed on screen (although one was scripted but not shot in "Resolutions" and ther are rumors of another scripted kiss in "Hunters") but the chemistry between them was imo undeniable.

Besides, this thread is about opinions on C/7 and you don't need J/C in order to make a case against it.
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline  
Old June 20 2009, 03:26 AM   #180
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

teya wrote: View Post
Celibacy is not good.

This has been an issue with the Catholic church in Latin America. Indigenous men are not going into the priesthood because of the celibacy requirement.

As an Indian man, Chakotay wouldn't be waiting around for Kathryn. While some in the majority culture here might call that romantic, an Indian would call it insane.
Well the insinuation Chakotay made in "Fair Haven" was that he was using the holodeck. Besides, indiginous man or not the fact that he was the first officer on a ship where getting assimilated by the borg was a daily worry he probably had a few other things to think about...

... at least I'd like to think he was thinking about them particularly if I were serving under him.
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
chakotay, romance, seven of nine

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:19 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.