RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,557
Posts: 5,401,852
Members: 24,861
Currently online: 661
Newest member: bunty2

TrekToday headlines

Mystery Mini Vinyl Figure Display Box
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

The Red Shirt Diaries Episode Five
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

Shatner In Trek 3? Well Maybe
By: T'Bonz on Sep 28

Retro Review: Shadows and Symbols
By: Michelle on Sep 27

Meyer: Revitalizing Star Trek
By: T'Bonz on Sep 26

Trek Costumes To Be Auctioned
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25

Hulu Snaps up Abrams-Produced Drama
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25

Abrams To Receive Award
By: T'Bonz on Sep 24

Trek 3 Casting Rumor Reactions
By: T'Bonz on Sep 24

Trek Comics Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Sep 23


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

View Poll Results: Chakotay / Seven pairing gets:
Thumbs up! 21 17.80%
Thumbs down! 97 82.20%
Voters: 118. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old June 19 2009, 08:49 PM   #151
teya
Vice Admiral
 
teya's Avatar
 
Location: 2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

My sincere apologies, kimc, for having a tiny little problem with being called "a joke" and "blind" simply because I don't see things the same way J/Cers do.

I thought I was rather nice about it.
__________________
Akoochimoya, my indigenous ass.
teya is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 08:58 PM   #152
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

teya wrote: View Post
My sincere apologies, kimc, for having a tiny little problem with being called "a joke" and "blind" simply because I don't see things the same way J/Cers do.

I thought I was rather nice about it.
Enough already!

Once again this is for EVERYONE in the thread: Stick to the topic and leave personal comments out of it. Otherewise, I'm shutting this thread down.
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 09:01 PM   #153
Rainbow Dash
Osmotic Knowledge
 
Rainbow Dash's Avatar
 
Location: J. Allen's House
Send a message via ICQ to Rainbow Dash Send a message via AIM to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Yahoo to Rainbow Dash
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Tachyon wrote: View Post
Someone actually tries to claim here that there was no attraction between Janeway an Chakotay at all?! Wow. We have a candidate for the joke of the year, folks!
There was a bit of attraction. Most of it was from Chakotay to Janeway. I would also appreciate it please, if we could refrain from referring to other people as "joke of the year", merely for having a differing opinion about a very subjective thing. I see the Chakotay/Seven pairing as a perfect match. I saw sparks between the two, propogated, I might add, by some very excellent fan fiction I read after the series was over.

Look. Simply because Chakotay is Janeway's first officer and he expresses a bit of interest and she in return, does not an intimate relationship make. To me, their relationship was professional but endearing, like good friends. There was nothing more, regardless of what a number of people wanted to see. What could have been, didn't happen. So it is mere speculation against what did happen. What we have is Chakotay and Seven, and I think they're very happy together.


J.
__________________
"I'm Star Swirl the Bearded! Father of the amniomorphic spell?
Did you even read that book I gave you about obscure unicorn history?" - Twilight Sparkle
-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Brony Kingdom
Rainbow Dash is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 09:12 PM   #154
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Look. Simply because Chakotay is Janeway's first officer and he expresses a bit of interest and she in return, does not an intimate relationship make. To me, their relationship was professional but endearing, like good friends. There was nothing more, regardless of what a number of people wanted to see. What could have been, didn't happen. So it is mere speculation against what did happen. What we have is Chakotay and Seven, and I think they're very happy together.
If C7 works for you then that's great. I personally see the attraction between J & C as going both ways. Ironically enough when I first noticed it back in Season 2 I found it a bit annoying but by Season 5's "Timeless" I was a convert! I had no idea it had such a huge online following until years later.
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 09:13 PM   #155
KimMH
Rear Admiral
 
KimMH's Avatar
 
Location: The poster formerly known as ORSE
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Funny, for me I wasn't feeling the J/C thing until I indulged in some really good fanfic - sort of tipped me in that direction. I had felt a relationship while in the DQ wouldn't be quite snuff but who would expect people to live monastically with no concrete hope of getting home in less than 25 years?

Janewy was very subtle in her hints toward Chakotay - I caught her making googly eyes a couple times but I felt her intrest in Victorian times offered and exlantion why she was so reticent.

When watching the serries in real time I was quite taken by surprise by the C/7 pairing as I had assumed the creators were working on a Moonlighting vibe - the mutually attracted partners who didn't consummate for fear of wrecking the friendship between J & C.
__________________
Just one woman; doing what I can, with what I've got, where I'm at!
KimMH is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 09:16 PM   #156
Rainbow Dash
Osmotic Knowledge
 
Rainbow Dash's Avatar
 
Location: J. Allen's House
Send a message via ICQ to Rainbow Dash Send a message via AIM to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Yahoo to Rainbow Dash
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

kimc wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Look. Simply because Chakotay is Janeway's first officer and he expresses a bit of interest and she in return, does not an intimate relationship make. To me, their relationship was professional but endearing, like good friends. There was nothing more, regardless of what a number of people wanted to see. What could have been, didn't happen. So it is mere speculation against what did happen. What we have is Chakotay and Seven, and I think they're very happy together.
If C7 works for you then that's great. I personally see the attraction between J & C as going both ways. Ironically enough when I first noticed it back in Season 2 I found it a bit annoying but by Season 5's "Timeless" I was a convert! I had no idea it had such a huge online following until years later.
I can understand the J/C stuff. She's a woman in a position of authority, he's a man who is devoted to his Captain, but it didn't go anywhere. I guess they could have made something of it, but they didn't. However, as we all know in real day to day life, nothing is ever what it seems. While it may have seemed right, either Janeway never acted on it, or Chakotay's feelings didn't go beyond the Student/Mentor stage, but he did find love in the arms of Seven of Nine, and she reciprocated that love. I don't know, I just think they make a cute couple, and I normally don't go for relationships or shipping or whatever it is.

J.
__________________
"I'm Star Swirl the Bearded! Father of the amniomorphic spell?
Did you even read that book I gave you about obscure unicorn history?" - Twilight Sparkle
-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Brony Kingdom
Rainbow Dash is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 09:18 PM   #157
Kestrel
Vice Admiral
 
Kestrel's Avatar
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

J. Allen wrote: View Post
There was a bit of attraction. Most of it was from Chakotay to Janeway. I would also appreciate it please, if we could refrain from referring to other people as "joke of the year", merely for having a differing opinion about a very subjective thing. I see the Chakotay/Seven pairing as a perfect match. I saw sparks between the two, propogated, I might add, by some very excellent fan fiction I read after the series was over.

Look. Simply because Chakotay is Janeway's first officer and he expresses a bit of interest and she in return, does not an intimate relationship make. To me, their relationship was professional but endearing, like good friends. There was nothing more, regardless of what a number of people wanted to see. What could have been, didn't happen. So it is mere speculation against what did happen. What we have is Chakotay and Seven, and I think they're very happy together.
J.
I agree with this. Especially requesting people not be called jokes. Though I'll put in a plug for TrekLit for those who want well-written pseudo-canon J/C... for a short time.

kimc wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
kimc wrote: View Post

I think you need to re-reread what I've posted. Thanks.
I did, this was your quote:
As for Chakotay, sure no healthy male is going to turn down a young blonde when he's not in a serious relationship but after his curiousity is satisfied in that area what's to stop him from satisfying it in another.

A quote you yourself admitted sounded "sleazy".
Sleazy according to our 21st century standards which are the standards you are applying here. My point which you seem to be glossing over for some purpose of your own is that we're not talking 21st century here.

Whatever. We're done.
What other standards would you have us apply in giving our opinion on whether something appears sleazy to us or not? I wouldn't presume that someone from 12th Century Wales couldn't find much of the 21st Century sleazy without proper education; and even understanding sociologically, they'd probably still find it sleazy. As we don't know what 24th Century standards look like, we're left to speculate from our own.

Asides that, there's no reason to presume 24th Century human standards are any different from 21st Century based on what we see on-screen. Especially those of a man whose identity is closely tied to maintaining centuries-old traditions of a people who hold to pre-spaceflight values systems. Certainly Janeway's faithfulness to Mark would suggest that, and the relationship between Tom and B'Elanna (and that's just keeping it to VGR).
__________________
"If Romeo had just masturbated a couple of times a week he would have saved both those nice families a heap of trouble."
Kestrel is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 09:31 PM   #158
Rainbow Dash
Osmotic Knowledge
 
Rainbow Dash's Avatar
 
Location: J. Allen's House
Send a message via ICQ to Rainbow Dash Send a message via AIM to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Yahoo to Rainbow Dash
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

kimc wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
Look. Simply because Chakotay is Janeway's first officer and he expresses a bit of interest and she in return, does not an intimate relationship make. To me, their relationship was professional but endearing, like good friends. There was nothing more, regardless of what a number of people wanted to see. What could have been, didn't happen. So it is mere speculation against what did happen. What we have is Chakotay and Seven, and I think they're very happy together.
If C7 works for you then that's great. I personally see the attraction between J & C as going both ways. Ironically enough when I first noticed it back in Season 2 I found it a bit annoying but by Season 5's "Timeless" I was a convert! I had no idea it had such a huge online following until years later.
I can understand the J/C stuff. She's a woman in a position of authority, he's a man who is devoted to his Captain, but it didn't go anywhere. I guess they could have made something of it, but they didn't. However, as we all know in real day to day life, nothing is ever what it seems. While it may have seemed right, either Janeway never acted on it, or Chakotay's feelings didn't go beyond the Student/Mentor stage, but he did find love in the arms of Seven of Nine, and she reciprocated that love. I don't know, I just think they make a cute couple, and I normally don't go for relationships or shipping or whatever it is.

J.
__________________
"I'm Star Swirl the Bearded! Father of the amniomorphic spell?
Did you even read that book I gave you about obscure unicorn history?" - Twilight Sparkle
-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Brony Kingdom
Rainbow Dash is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 09:33 PM   #159
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Asides that, there's no reason to presume 24th Century human standards are any different from 21st Century based on what we see on-screen. Especially those of a man whose identity is closely tied to maintaining centuries-old traditions of a people who hold to pre-spaceflight values systems. Certainly Janeway's faithfulness to Mark would suggest that, and the relationship between Tom and B'Elanna (and that's just keeping it to VGR).
Now that you mention it if Voyager was the only show you watched then there would be nothing to indicate otherwise. However, as a TOS and TNG fan I tend to take the Trek universe as a whole. There were indications in both those shows and Gene Roddenberry had expanded on them that people were more open with their sexuality and consequently I had a tendency to apply those same standards to Voyager.

However, you're right that there's not much on screen in Voyager to indicate that the 24th century is more sexually open than the 21st.
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 09:37 PM   #160
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

J. Allen wrote: View Post
but he did find love in the arms of Seven of Nine, and she reciprocated that love. I don't know, I just think they make a cute couple, and I normally don't go for relationships or shipping or whatever it is.

J.
I saw the C7 on screen as the beginnings of a dating relationship. Since I see the whole purpose of dating as spending time together to decide whether or not you want to take it to the next level I didn't see the "relationship" they would have after three dates as written in stone. If that's the case then the guy I've recently had three dates with would be my "life love" and I'm thinking - NOT.

Also, I think after everything Seven has been though she needs to play the field a bit before committing to one man before even setting foot off Voyager.
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 09:43 PM   #161
teya
Vice Admiral
 
teya's Avatar
 
Location: 2 mi S of Capt Braxton's shopping cart
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

kimc wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
but he did find love in the arms of Seven of Nine, and she reciprocated that love. I don't know, I just think they make a cute couple, and I normally don't go for relationships or shipping or whatever it is.

J.
I saw the C7 on screen as the beginnings of a dating relationship. Since I see the whole purpose of dating as spending time together to decide whether or not you want to take it to the next level I didn't see the "relationship" they would have after three dates as written in stone. If that's the case then the guy I've recently had three dates with would be my "life love" and I'm thinking - NOT.
Oh, I see C/7 on screen as that as well. However, Chakotay was pretty passionate about it continuing. Which it apparently did in another timeline.

Thing is, yes, three dates can tell you "no" or three dates can tell you "absolutely."

I knew my sweetie was "the one" by the end of the first date--granted, it went 8 hours.
__________________
Akoochimoya, my indigenous ass.
teya is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 09:46 PM   #162
Rainbow Dash
Osmotic Knowledge
 
Rainbow Dash's Avatar
 
Location: J. Allen's House
Send a message via ICQ to Rainbow Dash Send a message via AIM to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to Rainbow Dash Send a message via Yahoo to Rainbow Dash
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

kimc wrote: View Post
J. Allen wrote: View Post
but he did find love in the arms of Seven of Nine, and she reciprocated that love. I don't know, I just think they make a cute couple, and I normally don't go for relationships or shipping or whatever it is.

J.
I saw the C7 on screen as the beginnings of a dating relationship. Since I see the whole purpose of dating as spending time together to decide whether or not you want to take it to the next level I didn't see the "relationship" they would have after three dates as written in stone. If that's the case then the guy I've recently had three dates with would be my "life love" and I'm thinking - NOT.

Also, I think after everything Seven has been though she needs to play the field a bit before committing to one man before even setting foot off Voyager.
Ah, but there's more tangibility on screen with Chakotay and Seven than there is with Chakotay and Janeway. Chakotay had a thousand chances to be with Janeway, and he didn't, and Janeway had a thousand chances to be with Chakotay, and she didn't take them. When Seven came along, Chakotay chose to be with her, and she with him. It is that action that they took together. If he were not interested, he would not have accepted, and if she were not interested, she would not have accepted. In the end, Chakotay was with Seven and she with him, and Janeway was not. It's all on the screen. Nothing wrong with imagining what could have been, but we see what is right there on the screen.

J.
__________________
"I'm Star Swirl the Bearded! Father of the amniomorphic spell?
Did you even read that book I gave you about obscure unicorn history?" - Twilight Sparkle
-=-=-=-=-=-=--=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Brony Kingdom
Rainbow Dash is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 09:56 PM   #163
Kestrel
Vice Admiral
 
Kestrel's Avatar
 
Location: East Tennessee
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

kimc wrote: View Post
Now that you mention it if Voyager was the only show you watched then there would be nothing to indicate otherwise. However, as a TOS and TNG fan I tend to take the Trek universe as a whole. There were indications in both those shows and Gene Roddenberry had expanded on them that people were more open with their sexuality and consequently I had a tendency to apply those same standards to Voyager.

However, you're right that there's not much on screen in Voyager to indicate that the 24th century is more sexually open than the 21st.
On the one hand, Gene Roddenberry had some... unique ideas regarding sexuality in the Trek timeline that never really made it to screen. I'd be curious to know what in TOS or TNG (or DS9 or ENT if they help) you'd be referring to as indications?

On the other hand, I do agree that (human) 24th century sexuality is (likely) more open than (middle-class America's) 21st century sexuality. Although I'm having difficulty thinking of good examples off the top of my head.

On the other other hand, there's still this...

Kestrel wrote: View Post
a man whose identity is closely tied to maintaining centuries-old traditions of a people who hold to pre-spaceflight values systems.
to deal with. Since we are talking about specific individuals in this case, it's safe to assume that Chakotay's sexual ethics are much more in line with 21st Century Middle-Class America. You can base this on his culture, and on being part of the Maquis - his culture interfaced with the Maquis on its rejection of some aspects of Federation life to return to the ways of their ancestors.
__________________
"If Romeo had just masturbated a couple of times a week he would have saved both those nice families a heap of trouble."
Kestrel is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 10:02 PM   #164
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Nothing wrong with imagining what could have been, but we see what is right there on the screen.

J.
At the end of the show C7 were dating, they were not committed. Things could have gone either way after that.
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline  
Old June 19 2009, 10:03 PM   #165
kimc
Coffee Mod
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN USA
Re: Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

Kestrel wrote: View Post
to deal with. Since we are talking about specific individuals in this case, it's safe to assume that Chakotay's sexual ethics are much more in line with 21st Century Middle-Class America. You can base this on his culture, and on being part of the Maquis - his culture interfaced with the Maquis on its rejection of some aspects of Federation life to return to the ways of their ancestors.
I'm not sure I'm qualified to say whether Native American sexual ethics are in line with 21st century middle-class American or not. Assuming Chakotay was raised with less sexual openness he would have been exposed to other ways once he started at Starfleet Academy.
__________________
I'm certainly less inclined to bash Voyager now, it is not nearly as bad a show as many people make it out to be. - TheGodBen

Avatar by B'Elanna.
kimc is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
chakotay, romance, seven of nine

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:16 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.