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Old June 11 2009, 08:07 PM   #61
JustKate
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Re: The Borg, a defence

Deks wrote:
Rolling your eyes and applying human perspective to be the only 'correct' one on a universal scale is ludicrous.
But it's not only a "human" perspective. Non-human races in the Trek universe don't exactly line up to join the collective, now do they?

Volunteers, anyone? Anyone? No?

What it is, I would say, is a perspective of species that value the individual (edit: or their species' distinctiveness or both). And in the Trek-verse, that's not just humans.

Last edited by JustKate; June 11 2009 at 10:45 PM.
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Old June 11 2009, 08:11 PM   #62
Sci
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Re: The Borg, a defence

Deks wrote: View Post
Rolling your eyes and applying human perspective to be the only 'correct' one on a universal scale is ludicrous.


So's trying to justify the behavior of the Borg as being somehow okay. It's ludicrous to say that one does not have the right to condemn acts of aggressive war, invasion, conquest, forced mutilation, mind control, and enslavement.

Or are you going to tell me that it's ludicrous to condemn the Holocaust, since, after all, nothing the Nazis did was immoral by their standards, only by ours, and it's unjust to apply our moral standards to all cultures?

The most one can say about the Borg is that they are akin to wild animals: Not responsible for their own behavior, but still needing to be stopped.
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Old June 11 2009, 08:14 PM   #63
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Re: The Borg, a defence

^ May I add my voice to the chorus of those who just love that smiley, Sci? Even if it does "roll its eyes."
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Old June 11 2009, 08:15 PM   #64
Sci
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Re: The Borg, a defence

It's a pretty spiffy smiley. I'm glad I found it.
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Old June 11 2009, 10:04 PM   #65
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Re: The Borg, a defence

It certainly sums up this thread nicely.

I mean, the Borg must be right since the Q or the Prophets didn't directly intervene at any point to stop them, just as how the Nazis were right since God didn't directly intervene to stop them, right? That's some pretty thin rationalization there.

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Old June 11 2009, 10:41 PM   #66
JustKate
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Re: The Borg, a defence

^ For that matter, humans right here on Earth didn't intervene for a good long while. Eventually, yes, but for while there everybody tried to pretend it wasn't happening or that if anything bad happened, it was now going to stop and not go any farther. And that didn't make it right either.
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Old June 11 2009, 10:43 PM   #67
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Re: The Borg, a defence

Sci wrote: View Post
Hey, john titor, I'm going to come to your house one day and steal all your stuff. And then I'm going to abduct you at gunpoint and force you to work in my fields, doing whatever I tell you to do. It's okay, though. It's not evil, because I don't think evil is relevant; it just doesn't occur to me. Also, I'm just being in tune with the universe by continually expanding my collection of slaves when I abduct you and force you to work for me; the universe works on the principles of exploitation, and so do I. And, really, I'm just improving you by putting you to useful, rational work instead of whatever illogical thing it is you do most of the time now.

You don't mind, right?
VERY well-said, Sci! And I as well adore that smiley. I actually cracked up when I saw it. Almost as much as I crack up when I try to comprehend that someone could honestly believe the contents of john titor's posts.
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Old June 11 2009, 11:11 PM   #68
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Re: The Borg, a defence

RyuRoots wrote: View Post
Almost as much as I crack up when I try to comprehend that someone could honestly believe the contents of john titor's posts.
No more personal 'shots', please. Dial it back.
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Old June 11 2009, 11:41 PM   #69
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Re: The Borg, a defence

Anwar wrote: View Post
Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Now bear in mind this is all in an alternate universe where the Borg don't suck remarkably hard.
Lemme guess, you hate them due to VOY depowering their threat (which was inevitable)?
Nope, I hate them because First Contact made their motivations ridiculous.
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Old June 12 2009, 12:56 AM   #70
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Re: The Borg, a defence

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Now bear in mind this is all in an alternate universe where the Borg don't suck remarkably hard.
Lemme guess, you hate them due to VOY depowering their threat (which was inevitable)?
Nope, I hate them because First Contact made their motivations ridiculous.
...which would lead to their inevitable depowerment?

(I'm just trying to unite two views, which I think is possible )
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Old June 12 2009, 01:03 AM   #71
Myasishchev
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Re: The Borg, a defence

Ok, Voyager didn't exactly help.
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Old June 12 2009, 01:10 AM   #72
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Re: The Borg, a defence

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Ok, Voyager didn't exactly help.


Slightly OT, but as much as I love First Contact, it did make the Borg out to have something of a vendetta or a grudge (something that no force that powerful should ever have). Voyager made it worse when it turned out that the Borg had been spending quite a number of resources going after Voyager whenever they crossed paths, too. That kind of story motivation leads to depowerment in order for our heroes to escape.

I'm reminded of the old-school Borg, who wouldn't attack you if you didn't do anything to garner their attention, like the T-Rex in Jurassic Park or Simon Pegg and Co. trying to sneak by the zombie crowd by acting like zombies.
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Old June 12 2009, 01:26 AM   #73
Anwar
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Re: The Borg, a defence

Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Anwar wrote: View Post
Myasishchev wrote: View Post
Now bear in mind this is all in an alternate universe where the Borg don't suck remarkably hard.
Lemme guess, you hate them due to VOY depowering their threat (which was inevitable)?
Nope, I hate them because First Contact made their motivations ridiculous.
How? They just were using Earth as a testbed for new assimilation methods. Unless you mean the Queen, she was the result of Executive Meddling.
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Old June 12 2009, 01:37 AM   #74
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Re: The Borg, a defence

Have you ever took a child who really doesn't want to visit the doctor to get some sort of medical treatment? Ever been in a situation where it takes four or five grown men to hold a kid down so that blood can be drawn or an antibiotic injection can be given?

It isn't exactly pretty to perform medical procedures on screaming, crying violently resisting children against their will. But it sometimes has to be done for their own good.
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Old June 12 2009, 01:48 AM   #75
RyuRoots
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Re: The Borg, a defence

hyzmarca wrote: View Post
Have you ever took a child who really doesn't want to visit the doctor to get some sort of medical treatment? Ever been in a situation where it takes four or five grown men to hold a kid down so that blood can be drawn or an antibiotic injection can be given?

It isn't exactly pretty to perform medical procedures on screaming, crying violently resisting children against their will. But it sometimes has to be done for their own good.
I do hope this isn't supposed to be a metaphor for Borg assimilation. Giving a child a shot for the purpose of their well-being is very different from the attempted systematic rape of every civilization in the galaxy.
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