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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old June 12 2009, 06:44 AM   #1
TK421
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Let's talk black holes...

My love of the movie is well known but that doesn't mean I'm not blind to its faults.

So with that in mind... and leaving aside the question of what the Kelvin encountered...

Black Hole #1

Vulcan is turned into a black Hole. Delta Vega is so close that Spock Prime can see what happened to it.

Q: Why isn't Delta Vega sucked into the black hole?
Q: How long until the entire Vulcan system is sucked into the black hole?
Q: Why did Kirk and Spock Prime not experience any form of time dilation?Since:
a: they were so close to the Vulcan Black Hole Event Horizon.
b: black hole temporal effects are the mechanism by which Nero and Spock Prime travelled back in time.

Black Hole #2

Q: Where was the Narada in relation to Earth and Titan when the Narada was turned into a black hole?
Q: How long until the entire Earth system is sucked into the black hole?
Q: Why did the Enterprise not experience any form of time dilation?
Since:
a: they were so close to the Narada Black Hole Event Horizon.
b: black hole temporal effects are the mechanism by which Nero and Spock Prime travelled back in time.

Have at it.
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Old June 12 2009, 07:03 AM   #2
M'Sharak
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Re: Let's talk black holes...

Most of that has already been under discussion in other threads, most recently this one.

See also these recent threads:
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=95899
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=95485
http://trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=94948

A search will turn up others.
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Old June 12 2009, 07:51 AM   #3
TK421
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Re: Let's talk black holes...

Darn! Threads come and go so quickly I keep missing them.
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Old June 12 2009, 01:27 PM   #4
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Re: Let's talk black holes...

The black hole created by the gravity of the Narada will not have a very strong gravitational pull nor event horizon reaching out far. It seems the red matter reacts with the mass that it is surrounded by. On Vulcan, the mass of the core of a planet is much more (than the Narada's mass), so the gravitational pull (inward) would be able to "suck in" the planet.

What happens to the black hole is unknown. Is it actually a Schwarzchild singularity? Or just emulates the effects of one?
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Old June 12 2009, 04:51 PM   #5
TK421
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Re: Let's talk black holes...

Photoman15 wrote: View Post
The black hole created by the gravity of the Narada will not have a very strong gravitational pull nor event horizon reaching out far. It seems the red matter reacts with the mass that it is surrounded by. On Vulcan, the mass of the core of a planet is much more (than the Narada's mass), so the gravitational pull (inward) would be able to "suck in" the planet.

What happens to the black hole is unknown. Is it actually a Schwarzchild singularity? Or just emulates the effects of one?
Ah-ha! Good point about the Narada.
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Old June 12 2009, 04:58 PM   #6
Captain Pike
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Re: Let's talk black holes...

Photoman15 wrote: View Post
The black hole created by the gravity of the Narada will not have a very strong gravitational pull nor event horizon reaching out far. It seems the red matter reacts with the mass that it is surrounded by. On Vulcan, the mass of the core of a planet is much more (than the Narada's mass), so the gravitational pull (inward) would be able to "suck in" the planet.

What happens to the black hole is unknown. Is it actually a Schwarzchild singularity? Or just emulates the effects of one?
Naked singularity?
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Old June 12 2009, 05:04 PM   #7
Lonemagpie
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Re: Let's talk black holes...

TK421 wrote: View Post
Q: Why isn't Delta Vega sucked into the black hole?
Because it only has the same mass as the planet had, albeit compressed into a far smaller space (about the size of a golf ball, I'd say)

Q: How long until the entire Vulcan system is sucked into the black hole?
There's no reason why it should be - see above

Q: Why did Kirk and Spock Prime not experience any form of time dilation?Since:
a: they were so close to the Vulcan Black Hole Event Horizon.
b: black hole temporal effects are the mechanism by which Nero and Spock Prime travelled back in time.
They were nowhere near the event horizon, which would be the surface of the golf-ball sized hole.

Q: Where was the Narada in relation to Earth and Titan when the Narada was turned into a black hole?
Dunno
[/QUOTE]

The real question - and danger - is why Kirk and Spock Prime didn't get irradiated by hard gamma and x rays, which tend to flare around black holes.
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Old June 12 2009, 05:21 PM   #8
Cky
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Re: Let's talk black holes...

they are black and swurley!

And the question, nobody really knows, as the Enterprise had to warp in to the location, and both the Jellyfish and the Narada had to both come out of warp, they were probably out of our solar system, or atleast nowhere near a planet/moon.
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Old June 12 2009, 05:30 PM   #9
RobertScorpio
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Re: Let's talk black holes...

TK421 wrote: View Post
My love of the movie is well known but that doesn't mean I'm not blind to its faults.

So with that in mind... and leaving aside the question of what the Kelvin encountered...

Black Hole #1

Vulcan is turned into a black Hole. Delta Vega is so close that Spock Prime can see what happened to it.

Q: Why isn't Delta Vega sucked into the black hole?
Q: How long until the entire Vulcan system is sucked into the black hole?
Q: Why did Kirk and Spock Prime not experience any form of time dilation?Since:
a: they were so close to the Vulcan Black Hole Event Horizon.
b: black hole temporal effects are the mechanism by which Nero and Spock Prime travelled back in time.

Black Hole #2

Q: Where was the Narada in relation to Earth and Titan when the Narada was turned into a black hole?
Q: How long until the entire Earth system is sucked into the black hole?
Q: Why did the Enterprise not experience any form of time dilation?
Since:
a: they were so close to the Narada Black Hole Event Horizon.
b: black hole temporal effects are the mechanism by which Nero and Spock Prime travelled back in time.

Have at it.
Since most of the data we 20th century folk have on black-holes is pretty much still theory, I think a scifi movie can take as much liberties with it in order to tell a story.

And if they had stopped for even one moment to use TECHNOBABBLE to explain it? Then this movie would have been slowed down, and most of the audience (non trek fans) would have been rolling their eyes saying things like "Oh god, here we go again"

Good points to your thread...but on the grand scheme?

Rob
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Old June 12 2009, 05:31 PM   #10
SonicRanger
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Re: Let's talk black holes...

Oh, come on...

TK421 wrote: View Post
Q: Why isn't Delta Vega sucked into the black hole?
Q: How long until the entire Vulcan system is sucked into the black hole?
. . .
Q: How long until the entire Earth system is sucked into the black hole?
You do realize that there is an enormous black hole at the center of the galaxy, right? And we're still here, yes?

The answer: they're small black holes made out of things much smaller than even a single star. Perhaps even "red matter" black holes are unstable and will "evaporate" or something over time.

TK421 wrote: View Post
...Q: Why did Kirk and Spock Prime not experience any form of time dilation?
...
Q: Why did the Enterprise not experience any form of time dilation?
How do you know they didn't?
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