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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old June 7 2009, 05:35 PM   #1
Jaespol
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Hollow Pursuits...

Is it just me or did this episode really show everyone to just be massive jerks?
Geordi- being an ass and not only turning his nose up at Barclay but frequently barging in on Barclay's private holo-sessions.
Wesley - what an ass! In this enlightened future, Wesley is coming up with a nickname to describe Barclay as a vegetable?
Everyone else - just being general asses, whether it be Picard who can't restrain himself from calling Barclay "Brocolli" or the senior engineering staff who just sneer at Barclay constantly.
This episode was great but it did leave a bad taste in my mouth regarding the crew.

Last edited by Jaespol; June 7 2009 at 07:19 PM.
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Old June 7 2009, 05:46 PM   #2
M
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Re: Hollow Pursuits...

I completely agree with your assessment, Jaespol. I like this episode, because I like Barclay, but I really hated the crew in it. I wouldn't want to work with these assholes (and I'm glad this is one of the few episodes where they are portrayed like that). Whenever I watch this episode I always think to myself that the people on Deep Space Nine wouldn't behave like that. But of course the oh-so perfect crew of the precious flagship can't sustain a flawed man like Reg.
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Old June 7 2009, 06:27 PM   #3
Falcor5
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Re: Hollow Pursuits...

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
I completely agree with your assessment, Jaespol. I like this episode, because I like Barclay, but I really hated the crew in it. I wouldn't want to work with these assholes (and I'm glad this is one of the few episodes where they are portrayed like that). Whenever I watch this episode I always think to myself that the people on Deep Space Nine wouldn't behave like that. But of course the oh-so perfect crew of the precious flagship can't sustain a flawed man like Reg.
So you say your glad they showed a different side of the crew but then you are mad they did not act "oh-so perfect"?
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Old June 7 2009, 06:43 PM   #4
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Re: Hollow Pursuits...

Falcor5 wrote: View Post
NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
I completely agree with your assessment, Jaespol. I like this episode, because I like Barclay, but I really hated the crew in it. I wouldn't want to work with these assholes (and I'm glad this is one of the few episodes where they are portrayed like that). Whenever I watch this episode I always think to myself that the people on Deep Space Nine wouldn't behave like that. But of course the oh-so perfect crew of the precious flagship can't sustain a flawed man like Reg.
So you say your glad they showed a different side of the crew but then you are mad they did not act "oh-so perfect"?
No, that's not what I wanted to say. I should have been clearer. I'm glad that this is only one of the few episodes where the crew behaves in a way I don't like. Normally I rather like the crew of the Enterprise. But in Hollow Pursuit they act like they consider themselves to be above normal guys like Reg Barclay. And I found that really dubious.
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Garak: »My dear doctor, they're all true.«
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Old June 7 2009, 06:53 PM   #5
SJSharksfan39
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Re: Hollow Pursuits...

So TNG gets blamed a lot for having "Perfect" characters but then when they act more normal (As in people of today), they are considered Jerks. You can't have it both ways.
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Old June 7 2009, 07:00 PM   #6
M
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Re: Hollow Pursuits...

tomalak301 wrote: View Post
So TNG gets blamed a lot for having "Perfect" characters but then when they act more normal (As in people of today), they are considered Jerks. You can't have it both ways.
That's true. And I think it's actually a justified critique. I guess my problem with how the crew behaves in this episode has more to do with the fact that it feels totally out of character for most of them. I mean, Riker and Geordi – my favorite characters of TNG – are usually shown as rather sympathetic and accommodating. When I see how they talk about Reg in this episode I can't help but feel that the writers just changed their characters to fit the plot of the week. So, while I am totally in favor of more human characters with flaws, I don't think it should be at the expense of the established characterization of how these people normally act.
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Old June 7 2009, 07:05 PM   #7
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Re: Hollow Pursuits...

Everyone's had these two experiences--- Being the sort of awkward, Odd Man out of a group, and also being part of the group that sort of intentionally or unintentionally mocks that odd man out.


Think with Barclay you are supposed to think "I remember being that guy."

And with everyone else, you think "I can't believe I WAS that guy."

We all do this at some point, why should the crew of the Enterprise be any different?
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Old June 7 2009, 07:30 PM   #8
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Re: Hollow Pursuits...

Newski wrote: View Post
Everyone's had these two experiences--- Being the sort of awkward, Odd Man out of a group, and also being part of the group that sort of intentionally or unintentionally mocks that odd man out.

Think with Barclay you are supposed to think "I remember being that guy."

And with everyone else, you think "I can't believe I WAS that guy."

We all do this at some point, why should the crew of the Enterprise be any different?
Somehow I feel like I should defend my point of view.

I agree with what you say here – it's true, most of us were once part of such a group or were the one singled out by it. It's not that I deny that essential truth of human behaviour. (I guess this is actually the reason why I like Reg Barclay so much – because I went through a phase like that myself in the past. I am able to relate to his problems.)

It's just that I don't feel like the situation grows naturally out of the Next Generation characters. It feels rather forced, to be honest. Seeing how they behave in this episode didn't feel like watching the crew I came to love in the course of the previous seasons.
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Bashir: »Out of all the stories you told me, which ones were true and which ones weren't?«
Garak: »My dear doctor, they're all true.«
Bashir: »Even the lies?«
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Old June 7 2009, 07:33 PM   #9
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Re: Hollow Pursuits...

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
It feels rather forced, to be honest. Seeing how they behave in this episode didn't feel like watching the crew I came to love in the course of the previous seasons.

That I agree with, but I'll forgive, mostly because I did like the way it worked in the actual story.
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Old June 8 2009, 01:16 AM   #10
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Re: Hollow Pursuits...

I love Hollwo Pursuits, yes I think we can all indentify with Reg, but he3 also brought alot of his problems on himself. The Goddess Of Empathy was great as was The Three Musketeers with Reg shortening Riker, I thought it was alot of fun. I also didn't think the crew was acting out of character, the TNG characters aren't perfect and Geordi's own holodeck problems in Booby Trap was also brought up and it showed that even the command staff has their own problems. And this ep. introduced Reg one of the few reaccuring TNG characters to make it to the movies in First Contact.
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Old June 8 2009, 01:50 AM   #11
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Re: Hollow Pursuits...

Well to be fair Barclay was a seriously under performing member of the crew. Starfleet is something of a military organization and people's lives depend on everyone performing their duties up to par. Their is only so much empathizing you can give to someone before you just have to say you aren't cut out for this line of work. Picard and Riker acted pretty much in character. Riker's top priority is the daily running of the ship and he can't tolerate incompetence. Picard is more above the situation, like Janeway in Good Shepherd he can try and see the best is brought out in his crew.
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Old June 8 2009, 04:38 AM   #12
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Re: Hollow Pursuits...

Dark Journey wrote: View Post
Well to be fair Barclay was a seriously under performing member of the crew. Starfleet is something of a military organization and people's lives depend on everyone performing their duties up to par. Their is only so much empathizing you can give to someone before you just have to say you aren't cut out for this line of work. Picard and Riker acted pretty much in character. Riker's top priority is the daily running of the ship and he can't tolerate incompetence. Picard is more above the situation, like Janeway in Good Shepherd he can try and see the best is brought out in his crew.
Also, TNG era folks tend to be arrogant and supercilious when it comes to people who aren't perfect. Much of the first few seasons is filled with lesser aliens who just haven't seen the light. I could see this extending to individuals if that individual pushed the limits of competence.
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Old June 8 2009, 12:39 PM   #13
Anwar
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Re: Hollow Pursuits...

That's not TNG people, ALL Humans seem arrogant and look down on those less advanced and such than they are. They did it in TOS sometimes too.
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Old June 8 2009, 03:11 PM   #14
Mojochi
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Re: Hollow Pursuits...

The fact is that characters like Barclay & Ro were intentionally brought onto the show because there was already this stigma of them being too perfect, with not enough interpersonal conflict. I mean until Ro, there wasn't any woman that Riker couldn't charm or at least be sociable with . Riker is a very social character. It would stand to reason that he'd have trouble associating with Barclay, who is polar opposite

As much as I love him, Picard has always been rather pretentious & removed from some of the lower echelon. That's always been his character, & as for Geordi, he's always been slightly anal. Look how he reacts to Scotty, at first. Barclay was supposed to be a foil that highlighted the lesser qualities of our main cast, as was Ro. Did they not eventually begin to adjust? Beverly starts putting him in her plays. Geordi begins noting his tech skills & including him in the team, & even reaching out to him on a personal level

How could we have had this long term development, with Ro & Barclay, had it not been rather awkward at the start? That's how character development works. It's poor form to blast TNG for having no substantial character development (Given that TOS never really did either) & then complain about what character development they did manage to work into the form, eventually. Were it not for the slow changes in form that happened in TNG, there would not have been a show like DS9, that was able to embrace it more. It was a gradual process of incorporating it into a format that originally did not have it
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Old June 8 2009, 04:45 PM   #15
Xerxes1979
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Re: Hollow Pursuits...

I disagree that that Geordi was a jerk in this episode. Have you ever known a work supervisor more differential than Geordi?

LaForge asking Guinan's advice and trying to get Barclay to see Troi were not the actions of somebody who is arrogant or spiteful.




If any jerks existed in this episode they were Riker and Duffy, not Geordi.
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