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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old February 8 2015, 02:58 AM   #1
Bad Thoughts
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Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

Memory Alpha says that Bajor was one of the belligerents, but it seems to me that there isn't any overwhelming evidence that they participated on that level. Bajor gives material support to the Federation allies, but that would not have required them to be at war: Portugal, for instance, allowed Britain the use of the Azores during WWII, yet remained neutral. Kira and Odo's involvement need not have reflected a state of war. Obviously, the non-aggression pact was broken (probably when Bajoran security attacked the Jem-hadar in Sacrifice of Angels). Conversely, no Bajoran is sitting at the negotiating table in What You Leave Behind.

Perhaps I am making too much of this. As much as DS9 made a big deal about living with war, I might think that the Bajoran side would get a little more representation. OTOH, maybe I am missing something, and I would love to be informed.
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Old February 8 2015, 06:11 AM   #2
kirkfan
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Re: Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

I think the Bajorans were always enemies of the Dominion. The non-agression pact was only a way to protect Bajor against the brutality of the Dominion, since the latter made a show of honoring its pacts.
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Old February 8 2015, 06:16 AM   #3
Ithekro
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Re: Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

By the time the Wormhole was reopened, Bajor was having issues with leasing territory to the Romulans for the war effort and a large Federation Alliance fleet was stationed in Bajorian space.
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Old February 8 2015, 06:45 AM   #4
JirinPanthosa
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Re: Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

The Bajorans were never officially in conflict with the Dominion. The non-aggression pact was a sham on both sides. The Bajorans needed it to keep from getting destroyed, the Dominion needed it to convince neutral AQ worlds that if they signed a non-aggression pact they would keep their word.

The Bajorans openly supported the Federation after DS9 was taken back but never officially declared themselves against the Dominion. So they were sort of at war with the Dominion but never officially.
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Old February 8 2015, 01:09 PM   #5
Timo
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Re: Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

It would be pretty odd for all sides in an interstellar conflict to have the exact same idea of what "officially at war" means...

Conversely, no Bajoran is sitting at the negotiating table in What You Leave Behind.
That probably wasn't much of a "negotiating" venue, though - just a convenient horizontal surface for signing whatever agreement concluded the conflict. We get very little information on what was signed and by whom. There might have been dozens of participants on each side, or dozens of sides for that matter - or then only the Dominion and the Federation ever signed anything there, while Klingons and Romulans and Bajorans did their own deals.

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Old February 8 2015, 03:05 PM   #6
Cicero
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Re: Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

"Tears of the Prophets" suggests that they were at war, at least by the end of Season 6. Kira not only participates in the invasion while in a Bajoran uniform, but assumes command during the final assault on Chin'toka's defenses.
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Old February 8 2015, 04:29 PM   #7
kirkfan
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Re: Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

Ithekro wrote: View Post
By the time the Wormhole was reopened, Bajor was having issues with leasing territory to the Romulans for the war effort and a large Federation Alliance fleet was stationed in Bajorian space.
Just as Weyoun said, the Romulans are predictably treacherous. They already tried to blow up DS9 and failed only because of the chief's serendipitous time-shifts.
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Old February 8 2015, 05:57 PM   #8
bbjeg
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Re: Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

Cicero wrote: View Post
"Tears of the Prophets" suggests that they were at war, at least by the end of Season 6. Kira not only participates in the invasion while in a Bajoran uniform, but assumes command during the final assault on Chin'toka's defenses.
Yeah, Bajor (I believe Kira had deputies with her) was doing guerilla tactics with Damar against the Dominion. Unless they withdrew from the non-aggression pact, they broke it.
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Old February 8 2015, 07:01 PM   #9
kirkfan
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Re: Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

bbjeg wrote: View Post
Cicero wrote: View Post
"Tears of the Prophets" suggests that they were at war, at least by the end of Season 6. Kira not only participates in the invasion while in a Bajoran uniform, but assumes command during the final assault on Chin'toka's defenses.
Yeah, Bajor (I believe Kira had deputies with her) was doing guerilla tactics with Damar against the Dominion. Unless they withdrew from the non-aggression pact, they broke it.
Well, Kira was told to pose as a member of starfleet so that could have given Bajor enough deniability to not face punitive strikes by the Dominion.
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Old February 8 2015, 07:14 PM   #10
MacLeod
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Re: Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

kirkfan wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post
Cicero wrote: View Post
"Tears of the Prophets" suggests that they were at war, at least by the end of Season 6. Kira not only participates in the invasion while in a Bajoran uniform, but assumes command during the final assault on Chin'toka's defenses.
Yeah, Bajor (I believe Kira had deputies with her) was doing guerilla tactics with Damar against the Dominion. Unless they withdrew from the non-aggression pact, they broke it.
Well, Kira was told to pose as a member of starfleet so that could have given Bajor enough deniability to not face punitive strikes by the Dominion.
Well Starfleet does allow people from non-member worlds to sign up, i.e Nog. And Kira wasn't told to pose as a member of Starfleet she was given a Starfleet commission i.e she was a member of Starfleet. Bu wasn't that more to do with the fact that some Cardassians might take issue with taking advice from a Bajoran, the Starfleet unifrom was there to say she is acting on behalf of UFP.
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Old February 8 2015, 07:15 PM   #11
Timo
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Re: Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

It seemed that was a trick aimed more at making the Cardassians accept the help of this "Starfleet" guerrilla expert...

The Dominion for its part would have found excuses for blaming Bajor even if Kira had gotten a nose job, changed her DNA, and finally actually sent Bashir in her stead - or for not blaming Bajor even if Kira had sung all sixty-two verses of the Bajoran national song at each of the people she shot on Cardassia Prime. The Founders and the Vorta seemed to be all about realpolitik, not ideals or treaties-for-treaties'-sake.

Timo Saloniemi
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Old February 8 2015, 07:20 PM   #12
kirkfan
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Re: Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

MacLeod wrote: View Post
kirkfan wrote: View Post
bbjeg wrote: View Post

Yeah, Bajor (I believe Kira had deputies with her) was doing guerilla tactics with Damar against the Dominion. Unless they withdrew from the non-aggression pact, they broke it.
Well, Kira was told to pose as a member of starfleet so that could have given Bajor enough deniability to not face punitive strikes by the Dominion.
Well Starfleet does allow people from non-member worlds to sign up, i.e Nog. And Kira wasn't told to pose as a member of Starfleet she was given a Starfleet commission i.e she was a member of Starfleet. Bu wasn't that more to do with the fact that some Cardassians might take issue with taking advice from a Bajoran, the Starfleet unifrom was there to say she is acting on behalf of UFP.
Still, you can kill two birds with one stone, can't you?

I know, I can't. I'd be lucky if I kill one with a thousand stones...

Anyway, my position stands.
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Old February 9 2015, 09:30 AM   #13
Ithekro
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Re: Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

Bajor withdrew from the non-aggression pact when the Federation returned to DS9. Not only were the Bajoran secuity forces active in fighting the Dominion, They supported Federation and Allied forces against the Dominion over the next two years.

Having Kira go as a Starfleet officer had nothing to do with fooling the Dominion or to give Bajor any deniability, it was to get the Cardassians ignore her nose and look at her uniform. It was racial. Cardassians would not want to take orders and suggestions for a resistance movement from people they had fought for years and thought of as terrorists. Thus the Starfleet uniform. That would at least let the Cardassians shug and take the advise from a "Federation advisor" as it would be more acceptible than taking from a "Bajoran terrorist".
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Old February 9 2015, 03:20 PM   #14
bbjeg
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Re: Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

Ithekro wrote: View Post
Bajor withdrew from the non-aggression pact when the Federation returned to DS9...
Actually, before. Odo and his Bajoran deputies broke the pact when they assisted Kira and Rom in disabling DS9's systems when the mines went down.
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Old February 9 2015, 06:09 PM   #15
Dobian
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Re: Was Bajor at war with the Dominion?

Odo had some making up to do after initially betraying Kira and the resistance.
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