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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old May 26 2009, 02:15 PM   #1
Cheapjack
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Wikipedia says we've been ripped off on Blu Ray!!

It says in Wikipedia that ST2 is the only film to be fully remastered from the film negative.

I knew they would rip us off!

What''s the point of buying them all again on blu ray when you could just use an upscaling player with the original DVD?

I want to see pores, I want to see grill work, I want to see stars!

Can anyone confirm whether this is true, or not?
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Old May 26 2009, 02:30 PM   #2
TheGodBen
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Re: Wikipedia says we've been ripped off on Blu Ray!!

It's on Wikipedia, there is absolutely no way that this could possibly be false.
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Old May 26 2009, 02:32 PM   #3
Dimesdan
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Re: Wikipedia says we've been ripped off on Blu Ray!!

GodBen wrote: View Post
It's on Wikipedia, there is absolutely no way that this could possibly be false.
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Old May 26 2009, 03:29 PM   #4
jefferiestubes8
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Blu Ray film source - The Blu-Ray movie collection

Cheapjack wrote: View Post
It says in Wikipedia that ST2 is the only film to be fully remastered from the film negative.
While not a confirmation the home video (Blu-ray/DVD) versions of feature films are usually created from a film interpositive which is already 2 generations removed from the original camera negative.

1- original camera negative
2- internegative (white specks of dust ONLY)
3- interpositive print (black specks of dust & dirt)

sharpness is reduced and contrast added by the chemical nature of the duplications as well as black specks of dirt/dust and more grain.


2000 - O Brother, Where Art Thou? – The first time a digital intermediate was used on the entirety of a first-run Hollywood film.
Feature films have been creating digital intermediates [DI] since 2000 where the camera negative is scanned at 2K or 4K for color correction and then as the film's digital master.
SOURCE

Episodic TV series since late 1990s have been telecined to High Definition tape from the original camera negative. The only feature film I've heard of is SE7EN that was telecined from the original camera negative for a home video release and it was not a trivial matter.

the transfer was mastered directly from the film's original edited negative, which, according to New Line, is a first for DVD. A high definition transfer was completed and then the film was digitally cleaned of dust, dirt and other print defects.
Se7en: Platinum Series DVD released in 2000
see the special feature on its disc 2 called Mastering for Home Theater video clips (including Audio Mastering, Video Mastering, Color Correction Demonstration to see the time consuming process.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/reviews/seven.html


older TV episodics have been transferred from the original cut negative to HD tape have been Star Trek TOS, ER, The Twilight Zone [1960s].

If Paramount were to take the Star Trek feature feature films original camera negatives and do a 2K or 4K telecine they would have to do the very time consuming shot-by-shot color timing/grading just like in the special feature on SE7EN mentioned above.
It is possible in 10 years Paramount could go back to original camera negative [OCN] and do it but they will release these Blu-rays in the meantime 'as-is' from the interpositive print.

Modern day TV episodics do technically look better on 1080p HD televisions from a Blu-ray such as LOST, Heroes, 30 Rock, Grey's Anatomy, CSI, Weeds or Smallville than a feature film that does not have a digital intermediate because the 35mm film camera negative is telecined to HDCAM SR and is mastered to HDCAM SR tape.

Last edited by jefferiestubes8; May 26 2009 at 03:41 PM.
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Old May 26 2009, 03:34 PM   #5
Cheapjack
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Re: Wikipedia says we've been ripped off on Blu Ray!!

Thanks.

Can you see the pores, though? Does the starfield 'shimmer'? Does the grill on the Enterprise at the end of ST4 shimmer?
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Old May 26 2009, 09:55 PM   #6
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Re: Wikipedia says we've been ripped off on Blu Ray!!

The statement on Wikipedia doesn't jive with what the reference actually says. It says the Wrath of Khan was the only one to be given a full restoration due to the poor shape the negatives were in, not that it was the only one given a 1080p transfer.
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Old May 27 2009, 03:03 AM   #7
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Re: Wikipedia says we've been ripped off on Blu Ray!!

^That jibes with the other reports I'd read.
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Old May 27 2009, 06:11 PM   #8
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Re: Wikipedia says we've been ripped off on Blu Ray!!

I already bought the 10 Movie pack, all because I wanted the TOS movies and couldn't get them separately and was force fed the TNG movies lol.

I'm not doing that again
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Old May 27 2009, 08:01 PM   #9
Grant
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Re: Wikipedia says we've been ripped off on Blu Ray!!

For the 100th time.

'Restoration' and 'transfer' are two different things.

Restoration is cleaning up the movie. The more deteriorated it is---the more restorartion it needs.

Transfer is taking the print and putting on a disc--either in standard or high definition.

TWOK had deteriorated to the point it needed a full restoration. The others hadn't.

ALL were transferred into high definition.

Even though TWOK got the full restoration--it wasn't rated the best looking by some reviewers because there are other factors in the picture quality besides simple restoration.

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Old June 13 2009, 12:02 AM   #10
jefferiestubes8
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DVD upconversion

Cheapjack wrote: View Post
What''s the point of buying them all again on blu ray when you could just use an upscaling player with the original DVD?
see the DVD Upconversion answers from highdef digest June 12
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...or_17/2910#DVD
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Old June 13 2009, 02:08 AM   #11
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Re: Wikipedia says we've been ripped off on Blu Ray!!

But it's Trek it's hard to NOT want the movie sets.

I don't know if I wanna waste the cash, But it's trek, its like crack to me!

I am weak willed when it comes to Star Trek. Do I need counseling?
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Old June 13 2009, 08:11 AM   #12
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Re: DVD upconversion

jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
Cheapjack wrote: View Post
What''s the point of buying them all again on blu ray when you could just use an upscaling player with the original DVD?
see the DVD Upconversion answers from highdef digest June 12
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...or_17/2910#DVD
Yeah. Upconverting's not so hot on an upscaling player (DVD Upconverter). They look significantly better on a Blue-ray player, but the resolution is still the same. It will not get any better than DVD quality.


J.
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Old June 13 2009, 09:57 PM   #13
Harvey
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Re: DVD upconversion

Wikipedia isn't a great source, but, yes, we were ripped off. Star Trek II was the only film to be remastered without a technician trigger happy with the digital noise reduction. This isn't surprising, since Star Trek II is the most recent transfer, and the studios have only begun to figure out how to properly transfer film (and its grain) onto 1080p video. The transfers are also not of the extended versions of the films for Star Trek The Motion Picture, Star Trek II, or Star Trek VI.

We will be seeing a double dip here, probably sooner than we all expect.
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Old June 14 2009, 02:47 AM   #14
Jeyl
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Re: Wikipedia says we've been ripped off on Blu Ray!!

Is it me, or does the new transfer for the Wrath of Khan look incredibly.....blue?
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Old June 14 2009, 08:11 AM   #15
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Re: DVD upconversion

Harvey wrote: View Post
Wikipedia isn't a great source, but, yes, we were ripped off. Star Trek II was the only film to be remastered without a technician trigger happy with the digital noise reduction. This isn't surprising, since Star Trek II is the most recent transfer, and the studios have only begun to figure out how to properly transfer film (and its grain) onto 1080p video. The transfers are also not of the extended versions of the films for Star Trek The Motion Picture, Star Trek II, or Star Trek VI.

We will be seeing a double dip here, probably sooner than we all expect.
As for TMP, the sfx shots for the extended cut only exist in 480p. It would cost Paramount millions to redo TMP in 1080p.

There was absolutely no excuse for them to have not done the extended II and VI. Khan got a full restoration and the additional footage of VI exists on film so they could have done it in HD.
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