"Terminator Salvation" ending POLL (Spoilers)

[nx1701g]

Thrall wrote:

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But Skynet never wins. Conner always beats it one way or another.

Its never been proven canonly that Skynet has been defeated in any of the incarnations. The only time that you could potentially claim that it was defeated was in "The Terminator", but that timeline was overwritten by the subsequent films.

[Thrall]

nx1701g wrote:

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Its never been proven canonly that Skynet has been defeated in any of the incarnations. The only time that you could potentially claim that it was defeated was in "The Terminator", but that timeline was overwritten by the subsequent films.

Yes, Kyle flat out said that Conner beat Skynet and it sent Arnold Part 1 back to 1984 as a last resort.

But they also showed a flashback/flash forward in Part 3, of John celebrating with his troops, with his victory over Skynet.

That's farr more proof and evidence then Skynet being the ultimate winner. The only victory Skynet ever got was Judgment Day. And going by Part 3's established canon, you can only hold off the pre-determined you can't completely change it. So Conner will always win. No matter what.

Conner is pre-destined to defeat Skynet. No matter what time line. Always was. Always will be. It's his character arc.

[nx1701g]

Thrall wrote:

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Yes, Kyle flat out said that Conner beat Skynet and it sent Arnold Part 1 back to 1984 as a last resort.

But they also showed a flashback/flash forward in Part 3, of John celebrating with his troops, with his victory over Skynet.

That's farr more proof and evidence then Skynet being the ultimate winner. The only victory Skynet ever got was Judgment Day. And going by Part 3's established canon, you can only hold off the pre-determined you can't completely change it. So Conner will always win. No matter what.

Conner is pre-destined to defeat Skynet. No matter what time line. Always was. Always will be. It's his character arc.

You do realize the winning scenes in T3 were not events in the future war but were his thoughts right? It's also clearly said in the film that John Connor died before the end of the war because he was shot and killed by T-850 (if you want to go by the expanded script it was while Connor was planning for the invasion of Skynet Command in his office at Resistance Headquarters). Mostow admitted that these scenes were filmed but were cut due to time constraints. There are no actual Future War scenes in the film, only John's thoughts on what it would look like.

[The Borgified Corpse]

^And yet the only deleted scenes on the DVD are Schwarzenegger speaking with a badly dubbed southern accent as "Sgt. Candy."

DarKush wrote:

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Making him a cyborg adds an element of doubt, of fear, and perhaps even discovery that might have taken the Terminator franchise in a direction that really added something new to the Terminator franchise and made us see what came before in a different light instead of just playing in Cameron's, Hamilton's, and Arnold's sandbox, which isn't that bad since they constructed an awesome sandbox. It's just not that fresh.

McG peed in Cameron's sandbox!

Mr Light wrote:

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They just stuck Marcus' super duper pumper heart into Connor. Hopefully in the next movie Connor will be slightly stronger and faster than your aver-age bear.

In which case, who would win in a fight between John Connor post-heart transplant and Chev Chelios from the Crank movies?!

[Thrall]

nx1701g wrote:

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You do realize the winning scenes in T3 were not events in the future war but were his thoughts right? It's also clearly said in the film that John Connor died before the end of the war because he was shot and killed by T-850 (if you want to go by the expanded script it was while Connor was planning for the invasion of Skynet Command in his office at Resistance Headquarters). Mostow admitted that these scenes were filmed but were cut due to time constraints. There are no actual Future War scenes in the film, only John's thoughts on what it would look like.

But no where does it contradict Kyle's statement that The Resistance had basically won. And since pre-determined events cannot be changed, Humans beat Skynet.

[nx1701g]

^ True, but here's an add in.

The attack on Skynet in The Terminator took place at Cheyenne Mountain. The attack on Skynet in Terminator 2 was supposed to be after those events and took place in Los Angeles. Skynet apparently survived.

But the events did seem to change with every subsequent series and film, Terminator Salvation adds in that Skynet must be able to rebuild in new locations after the destruction of Skynet Central.

Terminator 2: Skynet in Los Angeles
Terminator 3: Skynet had returned to the CRS building (original script)
Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles: Skynet's exact location unrevealed.
Terminator 4: Skynet Central in San Francisco.

[Thrall]

nx1701g wrote:

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^ True, but here's an add in.

The attack on Skynet in The Terminator took place at Cheyenne Mountain. The attack on Skynet in Terminator 2 was supposed to be after those events and took place in Los Angeles. Skynet apparently survived.

I think it was said in some book or something that LA was a fall back area. As in last stand. Last pocket of resistance. Once again, it sent the T-1000 back through time because it was desperate. Which is kind of the whole point behind the films. Skynet is about to lose so it tries something radical. It's clear as day that in all three movies it's meant to imply that humanity either had won or will win. Is it 100% sure? No. But it's about 95% sure. Neither Kyle, Uncle Bob, or Arnie 2.0 give any indication of anything different than that.

If humanity was going to lose they would have said or implied that.

[nx1701g]

If we're going to include books then I get to add this in (I thought we were doing films only).

In the Terminator 3 novelization its established that the war is no where near completed as of 2032 with Skynet gaining more and more ground with humanity's numbers dwindling.

The official comic book of "The Terminator" includes a scene after Kyle goes back set in 2041 with John Connor still fighting Skynet. Kyle was sent back in 2029.

[Hartzilla2007]

nx1701g wrote:

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If we're going to include books then I get to add this in (I thought we were doing films only).

In the Terminator 3 novelization its established that the war is no where near completed as of 2032 with Skynet gaining more and more ground with humanity's numbers dwindling.

The official comic book of "The Terminator" includes a scene after Kyle goes back set in 2041 with John Connor still fighting Skynet. Kyle was sent back in 2029.

Then why the hell did Skynet send 3 Terminators back in time in a crazy plot to kill Conner in the past if the humans were losing the war?

[nx1701g]

^ Because Skynet didn't end. It simply activated a backup program.

So far backups - in the Terminator Expanded Universe - exist at nodes located throughout the Earth, in an orbital satellite, and there is one that is never confirmed in the comic book Hunters and Killers that is located on the ocean floor.

[Hartzilla2007]

^^
Yes but if that is the case WHY DOES SKYNET FEEL THE NEED TO KILL CONNER IN THE PAST IF SKYNET IS WINNING?

[Elim Garak]

Apparently, the T-1000 will be back for Terminator 5. It would be cool if it was played by Shirley Manson, but I doubt that will happen.

[nx1701g]

^ Robert Patrick has been approached to reprise the role.

Hartzilla2007 wrote:

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^^
Yes but if that is the case WHY DOES SKYNET FEEL THE NEED TO KILL CONNER IN THE PAST IF SKYNET IS WINNING?

Because Skynet wasn't sure if the backup nodes would work to restore its systems. They did.

[Elim Garak]

nx1701g wrote:

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^ Robert Patrick has been approached to reprise the role.

Because Skynet wasn't sure if the backup nodes would work to restore its systems. They did.

Actually RP will be playing a good guy in T5, described as "an idealistic scientist looking to cure conditions such as cancer and diabetes." It sounds like his character may be the creator of the formula for the syntho-skin, though I imagine the T-1000 might assume his form at some point.

[nx1701g]

Elim Garak wrote:

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Actually RP will be playing a good guy in T5, described as "an idealistic scientist looking to cure conditions such as cancer and diabetes." It sounds like his character may be the creator of the formula for the syntho-skin, though I imagine the T-1000 might assume his form at some point.

That is what is planned, yes. He is not the creator of the synthskin from what I've been reading and told. He is being set up as the man who designed the intellimetal that forms the T-1000. It is rumored that the T-1000 series will also appear in the film.