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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old May 11 2009, 07:11 AM   #1
Smiley
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Location: Chandler, AZ
"Counterpoint" Question

At the end of the episode, it is revealed that the telepaths escaped detection by hiding in shuttles with special shielding. Those shuttles enter the wormhole, never to be seen again, and it does not appear that they visit Voyager before making the trip. With that in mind, where were Tuvok, Vorik, and the other resident telepath during that inspection? How did they go unnoticed by the inspectors?
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Old May 11 2009, 09:54 AM   #2
Jaespol
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Re: "Counterpoint" Question

That was never explained, in fact we didn't even see Tuvok try to hide, I think he may have been standing on the bridge...it didn't make any sense.
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Old May 11 2009, 09:55 AM   #3
Praetorian
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Re: "Counterpoint" Question

Hum damn...

Could they have beamed over? Or hidden in another transporter buffer?
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Old May 11 2009, 10:15 AM   #4
Jaespol
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Re: "Counterpoint" Question

Its not even the biggest inconsistency really...a random Vulcan shows up in season 7 who shouldn't even be on the ship according to "Counterpoint"
Maybe the picked the Vulcan up at some point from some distant, lost Vulcan colony in between episodes
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Old May 11 2009, 03:54 PM   #5
Smiley
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Re: "Counterpoint" Question

I don't care as much about between-episode consistency because there are many more possible interpretations for them. When an episode doesn't pay attention to itself, it bothers me a bit more. I wonder if the explanation was in a deleted scene or in the script and just cut from the final episode.
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Old May 11 2009, 06:54 PM   #6
Frazzled
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Re: "Counterpoint" Question

I assumed it was because Kashyk was putting on an act pretending to be nice in front of Janeway, up until the bit where he revealed that actually he was double crossing her - at that point he would have had Tuvok and the other Voyager crew who were telepathic rounded up but before he could he realised she had tricked him too and was embarrassed so left quickly without arresting anyone rather than having to admit to his colleagues he had goofed......

I love this episode, especially the moment the vegetables rematerialise!
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Old May 11 2009, 07:51 PM   #7
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Re: "Counterpoint" Question

As yes, the episode that revealed they had a Betazoid the whole time. Wouldn't a mind-reader have been useful at some point before and after?

I think it's a good episode though.
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Old May 11 2009, 10:24 PM   #8
Jaespol
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Re: "Counterpoint" Question

Tomalak wrote: View Post
As yes, the episode that revealed they had a Betazoid the whole time. Wouldn't a mind-reader have been useful at some point before and after?

I think it's a good episode though.
Voyager really was just stupid
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Old May 11 2009, 11:05 PM   #9
Iamnotspock
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Re: "Counterpoint" Question

Jaespol wrote: View Post
Voyager really was just stupid
In 2001, the BBC in Britain ran a "Star Trek Night" of themed programmes to celebrate the 35th anniversary of the franchise. The captains from each of the four series (Enterprise was due to premiere that year) were asked to choose their favourite episode, and the four episodes were presented for a viewer phone-in vote. The winning episode was then shown at the end of the night.

William Shatner chose "The City of the Edge of Forever", Patrick Stewart chose "In Theory" (which he directed), Avery Brooks chose "Far Beyond the Stars", and Kate Mulgrew chose "Counterpoint".

"Counterpoint" won the vote. I remember actually shouting, "What?!" at the screen.
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Old May 11 2009, 11:38 PM   #10
Jaespol
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Re: "Counterpoint" Question

As I remember Janeway was also chosen as the best captain.
Voyager is more popular in the UK, I've seen it voted as the best show on UK forums, so much for British having good taste.

Mind you, I hate "Far Beyond the Stars" and "In Theory" is good but nothing special.
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Old May 12 2009, 02:08 AM   #11
DGCatAniSiri
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Re: "Counterpoint" Question

Tomalak wrote: View Post
As yes, the episode that revealed they had a Betazoid the whole time. Wouldn't a mind-reader have been useful at some point before and after?

I think it's a good episode though.
'Whole time'? Isn't the Betazoid they mention Lon Suder, the guy who was all ax crazy and died in the third season opener?
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Old May 16 2009, 05:38 PM   #12
15wss
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Re: "Counterpoint" Question

Iamnotspock wrote: View Post
Jaespol wrote: View Post
Voyager really was just stupid
In 2001, the BBC in Britain ran a "Star Trek Night" of themed programmes to celebrate the 35th anniversary of the franchise. The captains from each of the four series (Enterprise was due to premiere that year) were asked to choose their favourite episode, and the four episodes were presented for a viewer phone-in vote. The winning episode was then shown at the end of the night.

William Shatner chose "The City of the Edge of Forever", Patrick Stewart chose "In Theory" (which he directed), Avery Brooks chose "Far Beyond the Stars", and Kate Mulgrew chose "Counterpoint".

"Counterpoint" won the vote. I remember actually shouting, "What?!" at the screen.
I'm not surprised that Shatner would have chosen "The City..." - that was a good episode and - well, maybe he even liked having Joan Collins as the guest star. I would have thought that Patrick Stewart would have chosen "The Inner Light," simply because that was Patrick Stewart in a strong portrayal and Picard in a very unusual and rich situation. I really liked "Far Beyond the Stars," and am not surprised at all that Avery Brooks did too. Rather interesting that Kate Mulgrew chose "Counterpoint" - on the other hand, it was Janeway with a touch of romance and doubt (or maybe neither - she did fool Kashyk in the end; I thought there was enough ambiguity to go either way).

I think the plot gaps about how many telepaths (or how powerful they were) were on Voyager in "Counterpoint" were a bit silly, but I liked it as an episode, since I thought Janeway and Kashyk's chemistry and competition were very intriguing. I could have sworn that Tuvok and Vorik were kept hidden, or at least helping the telepaths escaping persecution temporarily.
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Old May 16 2009, 05:43 PM   #13
Frazzled
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Re: "Counterpoint" Question

I'm sure Tuvok is right there on the bridge at the end when Kashyk is doing his final inspection - can anyone lucky enough to possess it on dvd confirm?
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Old May 16 2009, 06:38 PM   #14
Adm_Hawthorne
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Re: "Counterpoint" Question

DGCatAniSiri wrote: View Post
Tomalak wrote: View Post
As yes, the episode that revealed they had a Betazoid the whole time. Wouldn't a mind-reader have been useful at some point before and after?

I think it's a good episode though.
'Whole time'? Isn't the Betazoid they mention Lon Suder, the guy who was all ax crazy and died in the third season opener?
Yes, that would be the guy. He wasn't really a viable source to use for missions after that point.

I think it was explained that they teleported the Voyager telepaths just before the ships went through the wormhole, IIRC.
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Old May 16 2009, 07:27 PM   #15
Praetorian
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Re: "Counterpoint" Question

Nah, there were another Betazoid, a female one, called Jarot. That's who Tomalak was talking about...
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