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View Poll Results: Grade the episode...
Excellent 82 79.61%
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Average 3 2.91%
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Old May 15 2009, 07:08 AM   #136
Hermiod
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

I voted Excellent. If I could give it a higher rating than that I would.
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Old May 15 2009, 07:37 AM   #137
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

I loved the scene where Miles asked the others if they have considered the possibility that the nuke could be the cause of the incident, I've been thinking exactly the same thing since like three weeks ago or whenever Daniel explained his plan the first time and was starting to get pissed off that all the characters on the show are too stupid to think that through.

Thank you, Miles.
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Old May 15 2009, 11:27 AM   #138
zengoth
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

LitmusDragon wrote: View Post
I tend to agree that Smokey is Jacob's adversary that we met at the beginning of the episodes or at least is working with him.

Wild speculation-
1. Smokey/the adversary has no real power off of the island. All of the time travel stuff was entirely Jacob's doing.
But if Adversary=Christian, we know Christian's been spotted off-island - didn't he appear to Michael just before the freighter blew?
Perhaps he explains Hugo seeing Charlie & Anna Lucia as well.

Also, please remind me - the 2nd time we visited the cabin - it was Hugo who went up to the window to peer in and someone peered out. Is it possible he inadvertantly broke the ash circle? Did Smokey get the ability to mimic human form only after escaping the cabin?
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Old May 15 2009, 02:50 PM   #139
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

Stone_Cold_Sisko wrote: View Post
WE've all generally come to the conclusion that "Esau" has been engineering these events to kill Jacob... but what about Jacob and the "70s folks"?

The whole time travel thing could be Jacob's counter-move to Esau's plan? He knew "Esau" had put his plan into motion so he went around and 'touched' Jack/Sawyer/Kate/Hurley/etc... Maybe that 'touch' is why THEY got selectively flashed back in time, both when Ben turned the wheel and from the Ajira flight. Like a "marker" that says, hey, everybody who has this mark on them, gets thrown back in time when things flash.

When he tells Esau "they're coming" before he dies... he's of course talking about all the people from the 70s, who have succeeded in changing history? 70s are Jacob's failsafe.
Yes, I've discussed this in this very thread. Jacob is manipulating events so that the 06 return to the island. The O6 who return to the past are instrumental in carrying out Daniel's plan after he dies. The plan to change history would've died with Daniel. Hence, you can guess that changing history will save Jacob.

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Old May 15 2009, 02:56 PM   #140
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

chrisspringob wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Predictions for next year. Yeah, as I said, they don't all die. I think they are successful in changing time. But, not in the way they expect. There is clearly another manipulator here that they've already set up, Jacob. He's visited all of the Losties, many before they knew of the island. He clearly knows the future and I believe is in manipulating events, weaving the fabric of time so to speak. He knows of the other guys plans (we don't have a name yet right?) and is working on a counter plan. So, he's cooking up something to prevent him from being killed. Ben kills Jacob but then the timeline is changed.
Doesn't work, because the version of 2007 we see on the show already includes the actions of the 815ers back in 1977. We know that because we see a picture of them from the Dharma era, and we see Richard say "I remember meeting them, and I watched them die". That proves that their actions back in 1977 are already part of the timeline.
No, we're talking about changing the timeline, not maintaining the current one. So, it does work. There's already proof of being able to change time. In the first episode with Miles with the kid. Daniel talks to Desmond in the past who suddenly remembers it in the future. He didn't remember that before.

Also, Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid were not supposed to go back to 1977 originally. Yet, Daniel's mom and Jacob have helped ensure that they will. Anything they do is different than the previous time loop. Their present in the past is already rippling to the present. The picture in the Dharmaville. That's an immediate change.

So, yes, things will look consistent to a point from the point of view of the characters in the present. But, we're talking changing the timeline.

Mr Awe

Last edited by Mr Awe; May 15 2009 at 03:08 PM.
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Old May 15 2009, 03:24 PM   #141
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

Gasp! So that S1
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Old May 15 2009, 03:24 PM   #142
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

Gertch wrote: View Post
gh4chiefs wrote: View Post
Not really digging this turn of events with "not Locke."
Right now I'm not happy with it either. Or finding our our Losties are merely pawns in a battle of good vs evil.

Maybe even smaller than that. Jacob setting up a chess move to change history so he wont actually be killed. By hand picking some people and setting them on a path to change the timeline then Locke is not around for his foe to use.

But I'm sure they'll come up with something to make me love the idea.
You know I was thinking about the writing on this show, and the characters, and I'm thinking I'd hate to be an actor portraying one of these characters. Look at what they do to them. Pretty much everybody hates Kate. Jack is well, a jackass. Sawyer, although redemed now, was pretty much the epitome of an asshole through the first couple of seasons. (And I'm believer in a "leopard can't change his spots so his character transformation has been unbelievable to me).

And then you have poor John Locke. Pretty much a pathetic loser all his life. Followed up by some serious errors in judgement on the island (blowing up the sub, the communications station, etc). And then he gets killed by that manipulitive weasel Ben. But then we get to seem him ressurected and become uberLocke, the all-seeing, all-knowing, kicking Ben's ass Locke. EXCEPT . . . it's not really Locke, it's "Not-Locke."

If there was a middle finger smiley I think I'd insert one for the writers/producers here.
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Old May 15 2009, 03:25 PM   #143
Mr Light
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

Gasp! So that S1 dream about Locke with the white eye and the black eye... could that have been foreshadowing for Locke being an agent of Jacob but then dying and his "body" being used by Esau??? Or is it just coincidence?
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Old May 15 2009, 03:33 PM   #144
chrisspringob
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

Mr Awe wrote: View Post
chrisspringob wrote: View Post
Mr Awe wrote: View Post
Predictions for next year. Yeah, as I said, they don't all die. I think they are successful in changing time. But, not in the way they expect. There is clearly another manipulator here that they've already set up, Jacob. He's visited all of the Losties, many before they knew of the island. He clearly knows the future and I believe is in manipulating events, weaving the fabric of time so to speak. He knows of the other guys plans (we don't have a name yet right?) and is working on a counter plan. So, he's cooking up something to prevent him from being killed. Ben kills Jacob but then the timeline is changed.
Doesn't work, because the version of 2007 we see on the show already includes the actions of the 815ers back in 1977. We know that because we see a picture of them from the Dharma era, and we see Richard say "I remember meeting them, and I watched them die". That proves that their actions back in 1977 are already part of the timeline.
No, we're talking about changing the timeline, not maintaining the current one. So, it does work. There's already proof of being able to change time. In the first episode with Miles with the kid. Daniel talks to Desmond in the past who suddenly remembers it in the future. He didn't remember that before.

Also, Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid were not supposed to go back to 1977 originally. Yet, Daniel's mom and Jacob have helped ensure that they will. Anything they do is different than the previous time loop. Their present in the past is already rippling to the present. The picture in the Dharmaville. That's an immediate change.

So, yes, things will look consistent to a point from the point of view of the characters in the present. But, we're talking changing the timeline.
I'm not sure I explained my argument clearly. i understand that you're talking about changing the timeline. But that would mean that there's an "original timeline" in which the Losties never went back to the 1970s and an "altered timeline" in which they did. But if that's the case, then the version of 2007 that we've been watching all season long is the "altered timeline", not the original one. We know this because there's a picture of the Losties from the Dharma era, and because Richard says he remembers them and "watched them die".

So nothing they did back in the 1970s prevented, say, Jacob from being killed. Because their actions are already part of the timeline that we've been watching all season, and Jacob was in fact killed.
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Old May 15 2009, 05:18 PM   #145
exodus
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

Flukie wrote: View Post
About the statue, where is the rest of it? If it was destroyed, where is the rubble left from it? It's like the rest just... disappeared.
The island moves.

When it was destroyed it got left behind.


Jacob is a name from the Bible.
Didn't he have a brother who was denied favoritisim and desired to kill him?
Isn't Ben the name of one of the many children Jacob had?

Jack's last name is "Shepard".

Who many cast members are left?
Are there 12?
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Old May 15 2009, 05:25 PM   #146
Emh
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

exodus wrote: View Post
Flukie wrote: View Post
About the statue, where is the rest of it? If it was destroyed, where is the rubble left from it? It's like the rest just... disappeared.
The island moves.

When it was destroyed it got left behind.
Additionally, it has been theorized for a long time now that's how the Black Rock managed to show up so far onto the Island.

exodus wrote: View Post
Jacob is a name from the Bible.
Didn't he have a brother who was denied favoritisim and desired to kill him?
Isn't Ben the name of one of the many children Jacob had?
Yes and yes. Esau was the name of his brother and Benjamin was one of two children Jacob had with Rachel (who was intially barren...sound familiar?) along with Joseph.

Additionally, Isaac was Jacob and Esau's father and we've met an Isaac on the show (the Australian healer, played by Wayne Pygram, that Bernard took Rose to).

exodus wrote: View Post
Who many cast members are left?
Are there 12?
Jack, Kate, Sayid (no way he's dead), Hurley, James, John, Jin, Sun, Ben, Desmond (unless he gets demoted next season), and Miles. 11 at the moment but others might be promoted (Illana, Jacob) or introduced. Plus I'm not willing to count Juliet out just yet...
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Old May 15 2009, 05:29 PM   #147
exodus
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

Emh wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Flukie wrote: View Post
About the statue, where is the rest of it? If it was destroyed, where is the rubble left from it? It's like the rest just... disappeared.
The island moves.

When it was destroyed it got left behind.
Additionally, it has been theorized for a long time now that's how the Black Rock managed to show up so far onto the Island.

exodus wrote: View Post
Jacob is a name from the Bible.
Didn't he have a brother who was denied favoritisim and desired to kill him?
Isn't Ben the name of one of the many children Jacob had?
Yes and yes. Esau was the name of his brother and Benjamin was one of two children Jacob had with Rachel (who was intially barren...sound familiar?) along with Joseph.

Additionally, Isaac was Jacob and Esau's father and we've met an Isaac on the show (the Australian healer, played by Wayne Pygram, that Bernard took Rose to).

exodus wrote: View Post
Who many cast members are left?
Are there 12?
Jack, Kate, Sayid (no way he's dead), Hurley, James, John, Jin, Sun, Ben, Desmond (unless he gets demoted next season), and Miles. 11 at the moment but others might be promoted (Illana, Jacob) or introduced. Plus I'm not willing to count Juliet out just yet...
Esau was older but Jacob was chosen, so Esau was made to serve his brother, right?

Esau became a hunter, while Jacob was a humble man and a dweller in tents.(much like the Others live)
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Old May 15 2009, 05:48 PM   #148
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

exodus wrote: View Post
Esau became a hunter, while Jacob was a humble man and a dweller in tents.(much like the Others live)
Also, if we remember, Faux-Locke (aka Esau) first appeared to Richard and the Others after having hunted a boar.

It's a small thing, to be certain, but one that ties directly into the inherent nature of Esau.
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Old May 15 2009, 05:56 PM   #149
exodus
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

InvisibleGT wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Esau became a hunter, while Jacob was a humble man and a dweller in tents.(much like the Others live)
Also, if we remember, Faux-Locke (aka Esau) first appeared to Richard and the Others after having hunted a boar.

It's a small thing, to be certain, but one that ties directly into the inherent nature of Esau.
Not so small if it give us a clue.
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Old May 15 2009, 06:04 PM   #150
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Re: Lost Fifth Season Finale: "The Incident"

Voted excellent.

However, I feel like Deanna Troi in Star Trek: Nemesis.
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