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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

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Old May 18 2010, 11:32 PM   #1
doctorwho 03
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How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

I think I just figured out how all the supposed continuity problems with STXI can work in this new universe.

The revelation came about while reading the Marvel limited series MARVEL 1602. In the story, Captain America from an alternate, possible future of the Marvel universe is captured and sent back in time to the 17th Century. His arrival in the past causes a ripple effect throughout time, both past and future, and jump starts the Marvel universe 3 centuries before it should. Familiar Marvel heroes now exist in this time with full histories of their own that extend to even before Caps arrival. I believe that is what happened in STXI. The arrival of the Narada in the 23rd Century caused a similar ripple effect throughout time, changing people and events and jump starting a TOS that is similar but different. That's how Chekov can be 17 instead of 21 like he used to be. That's how 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'.
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Old May 18 2010, 11:53 PM   #2
Dukhat
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Re: How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

doctorwho 03 wrote: View Post
I think I just figured out how all the supposed continuity problems with STXI can work in this new universe.

The revelation came about while reading the Marvel limited series MARVEL 1602. In the story, Captain America from an alternate, possible future of the Marvel universe is captured and sent back in time to the 17th Century. His arrival in the past causes a ripple effect throughout time, both past and future, and jump starts the Marvel universe 3 centuries before it should. Familiar Marvel heroes now exist in this time with full histories of their own that extend to even before Caps arrival. I believe that is what happened in STXI. The arrival of the Narada in the 23rd Century caused a similar ripple effect throughout time, changing people and events and jump starting a TOS that is similar but different. That's how Chekov can be 17 instead of 21 like he used to be. That's how 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'.
OK.
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Old May 19 2010, 12:05 AM   #3
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Re: How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

doctorwho 03 wrote: View Post
I think I just figured out how all the supposed continuity problems with STXI can work in this new universe.

The revelation came about while reading the Marvel limited series MARVEL 1602. In the story, Captain America from an alternate, possible future of the Marvel universe is captured and sent back in time to the 17th Century. His arrival in the past causes a ripple effect throughout time, both past and future, and jump starts the Marvel universe 3 centuries before it should. Familiar Marvel heroes now exist in this time with full histories of their own that extend to even before Caps arrival. I believe that is what happened in STXI. The arrival of the Narada in the 23rd Century caused a similar ripple effect throughout time, changing people and events and jump starting a TOS that is similar but different. That's how Chekov can be 17 instead of 21 like he used to be. That's how 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'.
Interesting, however, it would be much easier to simply state that due to the rippling effects of this alternate universe and the time deviations caused by Nero, not everything is quite the same in this incarnation of Star Trek.
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Old May 19 2010, 01:17 AM   #4
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Re: How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

"Up is down, left is right and sideways is straight ahead."
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Old May 19 2010, 01:31 AM   #5
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Re: How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

Maybe he called out "Georgey!" and we misheard the line.

Since Kirk never actually met his father George in this continuity, maybe he never developed the peculiar idiosyncrasy of calling his brother George Samuel by his second name.

Or more simply: I don't really care.
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Old May 19 2010, 02:07 AM   #6
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Re: How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

"That's not Uncle Frank's car you're washing, it belonged to Dad. And what's up with him calling me Johnny all the time? Johnny's the name of the dog!"

Problem solved.
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Old May 20 2010, 02:17 PM   #7
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Re: How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

doctorwho 03 wrote: View Post
That's how 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'.
In the Prime Universe, Jim calls George Samuel Kirk Jr "Sammy", and is the only person to do so. But in the altered universe, maybe Jim calls George Samuel Kirk Jr "Johnny", a nickname that has evolved from some shared event in their lives. Maybe George Jr has a habit of arriving late and is a "Johhny Come Lately"? Maybe he does his best thinking on "the John"? Thousands of possibilities.

My Dad and his older brother used to call each other "Fezzo", right through to adulthood and into their 70s. It apparently related to a family in-joke that happened at a party when they were teenagers, and one of them arrived wearing a fez - and both had a turn wearing it during that evening. Nicknames can come from anywhere.
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Old May 20 2010, 02:46 PM   #8
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Re: How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
doctorwho 03 wrote: View Post
That's how 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'.
In the Prime Universe, Jim calls George Samuel Kirk Jr "Sammy", and is the only person to do so. But in the altered universe, maybe Jim calls George Samuel Kirk Jr "Johnny", a nickname that has evolved from some shared event in their lives. Maybe George Jr has a habit of arriving late and is a "Johhny Come Lately"? Maybe he does his best thinking on "the John"? Thousands of possibilities.

My Dad and his older brother used to call each other "Fezzo", right through to adulthood and into their 70s. It apparently related to a family in-joke that happened at a party when they were teenagers, and one of them arrived wearing a fez - and both had a turn wearing it during that evening. Nicknames can come from anywhere.
This, most probably.
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Old May 20 2010, 05:56 PM   #9
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Re: How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

There are many possibilities. We are dealing with an alternate universe here. However, it wouldn't have been that hard to have just had little Jimmy call him "Sam" or "Sammy" when he drove by. Why they decided not to do that is beyond me. Unless, of course, "Johnny" wasn't actually his brother. According to what was seen on screen (not counting the "Kirk Brothers" deleted scene), James Kirk is apparently an only child in the Abramsverse. So that would be perfectly logical according to on-screen evidence.
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Old May 21 2010, 10:24 PM   #10
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Re: How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

I-Am-Zim wrote: View Post
it wouldn't have been that hard to have just had little Jimmy call him "Sam" or "Sammy" when he drove by. Why they decided not to do that is beyond me.
Once the longer dialogue scene between the brothers and the step-father was dropped, they relooped the "Hey Sammy!" line so as not to confuse regular audiences who would have assumed Jim was an only child, due to no evidence of an older brother on the Kelvin.
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Old May 21 2010, 10:35 PM   #11
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Re: How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post

Once the longer dialogue scene between the brothers and the step-father was dropped, they relooped the "Hey Sammy!" line so as not to confuse regular audiences who would have assumed Jim was an only child, due to no evidence of an older brother on the Kelvin.
Logical.
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Old May 22 2010, 04:35 AM   #12
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Re: How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
doctorwho 03 wrote: View Post
That's how 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'.
In the Prime Universe, Jim calls George Samuel Kirk Jr "Sammy", and is the only person to do so. But in the altered universe, maybe Jim calls George Samuel Kirk Jr "Johnny", a nickname that has evolved from some shared event in their lives. Maybe George Jr has a habit of arriving late and is a "Johhny Come Lately"? Maybe he does his best thinking on "the John"? Thousands of possibilities.

My Dad and his older brother used to call each other "Fezzo", right through to adulthood and into their 70s. It apparently related to a family in-joke that happened at a party when they were teenagers, and one of them arrived wearing a fez - and both had a turn wearing it during that evening. Nicknames can come from anywhere.

I like this explanation. I have a good friend whose name is Thomas Edward...but every one, family included, calls him Tim.
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Old May 22 2010, 12:40 PM   #13
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Re: How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

I think this ripple-through-time thing could definitely work... I rationalised the whole thing to myself this way, too. Only I came to the conclusion that in this new timeline, Jim Kirk is an only child.
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Old May 22 2010, 10:40 PM   #14
doctorwho 03
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Re: How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

Ok, I guess the only child thing also works with the theory, but I still like to think Kirk has a brother, just not called Sam. Who's to say that 'Johnny' wasn't back on Earth being looked after by grandparents because Starfleet regulations don't allow young children on starships, and that the Kelvin was heading back to Earth to drop off the Kirks when the Narada came crashing through time. But the only child thing works just as well.
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Old May 22 2010, 11:03 PM   #15
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Re: How 'Johnny' can still be 'Sam'

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
I-Am-Zim wrote: View Post
it wouldn't have been that hard to have just had little Jimmy call him "Sam" or "Sammy" when he drove by. Why they decided not to do that is beyond me.
Once the longer dialogue scene between the brothers and the step-father was dropped, they relooped the "Hey Sammy!" line so as not to confuse regular audiences who would have assumed Jim was an only child, due to no evidence of an older brother on the Kelvin.
Well, it's not like he said "Hey, Johnny! My brother from the dad I never met!" If Kirk yelled out "Georgie", regular audiences wouldn't have know the difference, but fans would have caught the reference (much like Kirk snacking on an apple during the Kobayashi Maru).

In unrelated news, I really don't care if that kid ended up as Kirk's brother or not.
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