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Old May 22 2010, 07:17 PM   #46
stj
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Re: the problem with canon

Aside from confusing "canon" with "continuity," and rating either more highly than it deserves, Star Trek has a canon problem that only hits really old franchises like it: It is outdated by reality. The Eugenics Wars didn't happen (Greg Cox bold and valiant attempt to redefine them notwithstanding,) and sleeper ships are not flying. Star Trek has died of old age. A soulless zombie like the new movie just prove it.
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Old May 22 2010, 07:57 PM   #47
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Re: the problem with canon

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Yeah, the problem with canon is that it's often confused with continuity. Things don't have to be in the same continuity to be considered canon, IMO.

...

There's also the problem that people sometimes confuse "canon" with "quality."

As in "That episode sucked because it violated canon."

As opposed to "The episode sucked because the characterization was flat and the dialogue was boring." (Or whatever.)

Personally, I'd rather watch a good episode that fudges the canon than a mediocre episode that fits the continuity perfectly.
In such instances, I think it becomes a case of how well a story is written in general, IMO. But there used to be a time when continuity wasn't really a big issue at all because there really wasn't a focus on Star Trek's past like there has been the last ten years or so...
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Old May 22 2010, 09:12 PM   #48
TiberiusMaximus
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Re: the problem with canon

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Yeah, the problem with canon is that it's often confused with continuity. Things don't have to be in the same continuity to be considered canon, IMO.

...

There's also the problem that people sometimes confuse "canon" with "quality."

As in "That episode sucked because it violated canon."

As opposed to "The episode sucked because the characterization was flat and the dialogue was boring." (Or whatever.)

Personally, I'd rather watch a good episode that fudges the canon than a mediocre episode that fits the continuity perfectly.
Me too.

'Filling in the blanks' is fine too. Like a detective/mystery novel that doesn't give you all the details...granted, in this case, the details are usually left out or contradicted accidentally, but it's all for entertainment. So who cares?

Personally, the word bugs me more than the idea. "Canon" describes the Bible, not Star Trek. And don't even get me started on 'caNNon', if you're gonna argue about why something does or doesn't apply to or contradict something, at least know how to spell it. ONE N!
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Old May 22 2010, 10:39 PM   #49
Greg Cox
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Re: the problem with canon

TiberiusMaximus wrote: View Post
Greg Cox wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Yeah, the problem with canon is that it's often confused with continuity. Things don't have to be in the same continuity to be considered canon, IMO.

...

There's also the problem that people sometimes confuse "canon" with "quality."

As in "That episode sucked because it violated canon."

As opposed to "The episode sucked because the characterization was flat and the dialogue was boring." (Or whatever.)

Personally, I'd rather watch a good episode that fudges the canon than a mediocre episode that fits the continuity perfectly.
Me too.

'Filling in the blanks' is fine too. Like a detective/mystery novel that doesn't give you all the details...granted, in this case, the details are usually left out or contradicted accidentally, but it's all for entertainment. So who cares?

Personally, the word bugs me more than the idea. "Canon" describes the Bible, not Star Trek. And don't even get me started on 'caNNon', if you're gonna argue about why something does or doesn't apply to or contradict something, at least know how to spell it. ONE N!
To be fair, the Sherlock Holmes fans were refering to Conan Doyle's stories as the Canon long before the Trekkies started to doing it . . .

There's also the tradition of referring to the classics of Western Literature as the Canon. (Our local library system actually uses the term "Canon Literature" instead of "Classics" in its electronic filing system.)
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Old May 22 2010, 11:08 PM   #50
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Re: the problem with canon

TiberiusMaximus wrote: View Post
Personally, the word bugs me more than the idea. "Canon" describes the Bible, not Star Trek. And don't even get me started on 'caNNon', if you're gonna argue about why something does or doesn't apply to or contradict something, at least know how to spell it. ONE N!
Well, you beat me to it. The biggest problem with canon is that it is the most consistently misspelled word in the BBS. So does that mean that "cannon" is canonical?
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Old May 23 2010, 01:28 AM   #51
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Re: the problem with canon

If a "sister" accepts the standard list of Bible books, is she cannunical?
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Old May 23 2010, 01:43 AM   #52
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Re: the problem with canon

^Ouch. Ouch. Never underestimate the power of a bad joke to cause physical pain...sheesh.
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Old May 23 2010, 01:48 AM   #53
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Re: the problem with canon

If there's a dance at a Trek convention, is that a canon ball?
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Old May 23 2010, 06:03 AM   #54
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Re: the problem with canon

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Yeah, the problem with canon is that it's often confused with continuity.
There's also the problem that people sometimes confuse "canon" with "quality."
And a on going problem with people who confuse "box office receipts" with "believable Star Trek movie."

plynch wrote: View Post
If there's a dance at a Trek convention, is that a canon ball?
What do you mean IF. I always dance at conventions.
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Old May 23 2010, 02:44 PM   #55
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Re: the problem with canon

T'Girl wrote: View Post

plynch wrote: View Post
If there's a dance at a Trek convention, is that a canon ball?
What do you mean IF. I always dance at conventions.
I've only been to very small conventions (Michigan's Upper Peninsula), so no dances. If it's a canon ball, what if someone were dressed like a character from a novel or TAS (still non canonical to Paramount)? Are they excluded? Of course Arex could only dance waltzes anyway. Be well.
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Old May 23 2010, 04:05 PM   #56
Greg Cox
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Re: the problem with canon

Biggshow wrote: View Post
TiberiusMaximus wrote: View Post
Personally, the word bugs me more than the idea. "Canon" describes the Bible, not Star Trek. And don't even get me started on 'caNNon', if you're gonna argue about why something does or doesn't apply to or contradict something, at least know how to spell it. ONE N!
Well, you beat me to it. The biggest problem with canon is that it is the most consistently misspelled word in the BBS.

Although "rogue" and "Khan" probably give it a run for its money . . . .
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Old May 23 2010, 07:22 PM   #57
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Re: the problem with canon

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
Although "rogue" and "Khan" probably give it a run for its money . . . .
I Kahnt stand it when people misspell the name of such an amazing rouge!
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Old May 23 2010, 07:44 PM   #58
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Re: the problem with canon

Any "problems" with canon are fan-created. 100%.
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Old May 23 2010, 11:47 PM   #59
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Re: the problem with canon

stj wrote: View Post
Aside from confusing "canon" with "continuity," and rating either more highly than it deserves, Star Trek has a canon problem that only hits really old franchises like it: It is outdated by reality. The Eugenics Wars didn't happen (Greg Cox bold and valiant attempt to redefine them notwithstanding,) and sleeper ships are not flying.
True. When my wife first saw "Space Seed" and heard that Khan et al were from the 1990s, her first question was, "The Nineties? Shouldn't they wearing flannel and into grunge?"
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Old May 24 2010, 08:19 AM   #60
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Re: the problem with canon

plynch wrote: View Post
Arex could only dance waltzes anyway
Friends of mine once worked on a filk song called "Walk Like an Edoan", to the tune of "Walk Like an Egyptian".
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