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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > The Next Generation

The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old December 18 2009, 02:02 PM   #556
Tomalak
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
Yeah, the Mona Lisa would look so much better as a 3D Hologram. Let's just make the hologram and burn the painting, eh?
No, what people are saying is that they'd rather look at the actual Mona Lisa painting that a cheap copy printed on a dot matrix printer. In this case, the actual painting = HD version of film, SD is a cheap copy. You may say you'd like to keep your cheap printed copy of the Mona Lisa because that's the only one you've ever seen and known, but some of us would like to get a glimpse of the actual painting. At least get your analogy straight.

Again, it's not about adding details that aren't there, i.e. turning TNG into a 3D hologram. It's about seeing details that are already there on the film. Your analogy doesn't fit.

I'm sure the original SD versions will still be available. Too many Trekkers would sh*t a brick if they weren't. I wouldn't worry.
Very well put.
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Old December 18 2009, 10:17 PM   #557
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
Harvey wrote: View Post
Having just seen Casablanca in glorious 35mm last week, I can say that the HD version is nice (indeed, very nice), but it's not the real thing.
No doubt, I'm sure. But the HD version is pretty cool.
3D Master wrote: View Post
Yeah, the Mona Lisa would look so much better as a 3D Hologram. Let's just make the hologram and burn the painting, eh?
No, what people are saying is that they'd rather look at the actual Mona Lisa painting that a cheap copy printed on a dot matrix printer. In this case, the actual painting = HD version of film, SD is a cheap copy. You may say you'd like to keep your cheap printed copy of the Mona Lisa because that's the only one you've ever seen and known, but some of us would like to get a glimpse of the actual painting. At least get your analogy straight.

Again, it's not about adding details that aren't there, i.e. turning TNG into a 3D hologram. It's about seeing details that are already there on the film. Your analogy doesn't fit.

I'm sure the original SD versions will still be available. Too many Trekkers would sh*t a brick if they weren't. I wouldn't worry.


We're talking about special effects, which would have to be redone from scratch like with the TOS special effects.

That's not closer to the original, that's something else entirely.

Tomalak wrote: View Post
Very well put.
Very wrongly put.
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Old December 18 2009, 10:55 PM   #558
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

3D Master wrote: View Post
We're talking about special effects, which would have to be redone from scratch like with the TOS special effects.
On the contrary, we've established that many of the effects wouldn't have to be recreated from scratch. Optical printing techniques from the 1960s left the visual effects material in Star Trek at a much lower quality than the rest of the material--on the original 35mm negative. That's the technical justification for the new effects in the remastered episodes.

Star Trek: The Next Generation, on the other hand, while originally mastered on video, shot many of its visual effects on 35mm film. These shots would simply have to be rescanned and recomposited to appear, unaltered, in HD. Some of the visual effects on the series (and exactly how many has not been established) were only created at the resoultion of NTSC video. These shots, yes, would have to be redone, although some of these effects have already been recreated at 35mm resolution for the feature films (phaser effects, etc.).

If Star Trek: The Next Generation is ever brought to HD, Paramount may elect to recreate all of the visual effects using modern CGI techniques. But they wouldn't have to.
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Old December 18 2009, 11:14 PM   #559
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

TNG
Harvey wrote: View Post
shot many of its visual effects on 35mm film. These shots would simply have to be rescanned and recomposited
If Star Trek: The Next Generation is ever brought to HD, Paramount may elect to recreate all of the visual effects using modern CGI techniques. But they wouldn't have to.
Harvey is correct in that it could be done if cost did not matter but it does matter.

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It would not be cost effective to telecine all the Enterprise-D exterior model shots for compositing.
Any live-action ship interiors they would do the visual effects over the filmed footage.
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Old December 19 2009, 05:30 AM   #560
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

The somewhat disturbing issue with going to HD resolution for TNG is that the imperfections of the production will stick out much more obviously. The models and sets for example were definitely not intended for that kind of clarity.

It's almost going to be worse than TOS in a way in my opinion because TOS was very obviously simplistic and was leaving a lot to your imagination in general, but TNG tried very hard to look convincing. All the paint chips and scratched metal panels in the hallways, the paint and decal oopsies on the props/models, all hidden by SDTV, will show super clear at 1920x1080!!

Hell, I started to notice this stuff just by going from my VHS recordings to the DVDs.
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Old December 19 2009, 06:44 AM   #561
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

I certainly wonder if those imperfections will show up myself, although the sets for Star Trek: The Next Generation looked fine on 35mm in Star Trek: Generations.

On the whole, Star Trek looks fine in HD, exploding styrofoam rocks and all. I don't think Star Trek: The Next Generation could really do much worse.
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Old December 19 2009, 01:23 PM   #562
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

I do wonder - Generations plunged the "space hotel" into darkness, presumably in part to hide the wear and tear to the seven year old sets.

I wouldn't have thought it would be a major concern, but it would be interesting to see.
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Old December 19 2009, 02:11 PM   #563
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Tomalak wrote: View Post
I do wonder - Generations plunged the "space hotel" into darkness, presumably in part to hide the wear and tear to the seven year old sets.
I think it's time to see "Generations" again. I'll add it to the Netflix que just to see the lighting styles from the film compared to the TV series.

In general if it is not a comedy you have more dramatic lighting on a feature film than television.

Offtopic: Although CSI (Las Vegas) season 1 had very dramatic lighting. So much so that the Dir. of Photography quit after 9 episodes over 'creative differences' as the producers later wanted the lighting changed to more traditional.
Although it is a show like CSI (original) that really pushed how television could look. See the DVD or Blu-ray for season 1.
To me Heroes (I've only seen season 1), Alias, Mad Men, The X-Files (wide shots only) & CSI (Las Vegas) show television looking more like a feature film visually in mostly the cinematography lighting & camera movements & framings. I'm talking technical aethetics not the story, acting, writing.

I'll check out the ENT-D on Generations...thanks for the reminder.
To me First Contact bridge for ENT-E wasn't too dark that it was hugely noticeable from TNG series.
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Old December 19 2009, 02:29 PM   #564
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

The new effects would probably disappoint in many cases if it was done too soon or to cheaply.
TOSR really got the most out of episodes like "Journey to Babel" or "Amok Time", but people would expect more from TNGR with its often very lengthy space shots (mostly consisting of stock footage now).
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Old December 19 2009, 04:17 PM   #565
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

jefferiestubes8 wrote: View Post
In general if it is not a comedy you have more dramatic lighting on a feature film than television.
Yes, of course that is certainly true. Then again, the TMP Enterprise was very bright, and the TNG corridor sets were used pretty much unchanged in TFF, complete with the bright lighting.

The Enterprise-D sets were spruced up for the movie, most noticeably the bridge was given the side stations, the captain's chair was raised up, and there was a beefier ceiling, all to make the thing look wider. The native TNG bridge was very much designed to fit on a 4:3 TV screen, whereas the Generations adaptations give it more presence for the widescreen.

I doubt other sets were given much attention - they just turned the lights down and avoided lingering. Engineering, the corridors, sickbay and especially Data's quarters were lit totally differently. They were also able to pack in many more extras, which helped.

But I will say the lighting is beautiful in that film. The scenes in Ten Forward and Picard's quarters with the sunlight streaming in looks amazing every time.

To me First Contact bridge for ENT-E wasn't too dark that it was hugely noticeable from TNG series.
I don't think the lighting is especially dark compared with Generations, but the colour palette is obviously darker, with more brown and battleship grey rather than the tans of the Enterprise-D.
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Old December 20 2009, 11:37 PM   #566
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

TNG's space shots also could have used some more dramatic lighting.
This is the same model I used for that other image earlier in this thread:

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Old December 21 2009, 03:06 AM   #567
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

Yes, the ship shots tended to be lit very flat. I think one of the most effective scenes is in BoBW, with the ship silhouetted against the nebula.

Regarding the lighting of interiors, there is a superb scene in "The Child" with Wesley and Guinan in Ten Forward. It starts outside the ship, moves down and into the window. It's late at night and the bar is deserted, but there are some lovely shadows cast by the light that is coming in through the windows from the nearby star. As the ship leaves orbit, the light shifts as the Enterprise changes course, then we see the rarely-used warp jump visual from inside Ten Forward. It's a fantastic scene, and later seasons rarely attempted anything as elaborate.
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Old December 21 2009, 06:20 AM   #568
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

The first episode of season three, the one with the Nanites, was lit really nicely - interior as well as exterior.
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Old December 21 2009, 07:13 AM   #569
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Yes it was, quite a few of those season 3 episodes are. They also benefit from the Ron Jones music. Shame it all seemed so bland in comparison by season 7.
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Old December 21 2009, 04:23 PM   #570
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Re: Star Trek TNG Remastered?

To tell you the truth, I'm not sure what this obsession is with taking shows that were made under old TV standards and trying to make them look like current TV standards.

Can't we just accept the fact that shows made in the 1980's are going to look different from ones made in 2009? Why must we insist on trying to remaster them to high definition standards, pull them into a 16:9 format, update the visual effects, etc.? Why can't we just accept the fact that, even on Blu-ray on a HD set, TNG is going to look like a show with 1980's quality visuals because that's when it was made?

Are we next going to be trying to make a high definition version of I Love Lucy?
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