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Old June 4 2009, 01:03 PM   #1
teacake
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A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

So tonight I'm watching TOS-R with my 12 year old. He's seen the first season of TOS, all of VOY, all of ENT and the first 2 seasons of DS9 (and half the movies and TAS). We're watching "The Changeling". Nomad takes control of the ship and increases the speed to warp 9, warp 10, warp 11..

AND THE KID FREAKS OUT!

"They can't go past warp 10, what about Threshold?! Why was that the threshold in Threshold if they already went to warp 11 in TOS?!"

hahahaha..

So is there any in-universe answer to this one? He was not satisfied with my answer of "VOY ignored this and was in error".
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Old June 4 2009, 01:06 PM   #2
Deckerd
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Re: A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

Have you pointed out that warp anything is fantasy?
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Old June 4 2009, 01:07 PM   #3
SilentP
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Re: A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

Hehehe, poor child doesn't know what he's in for

Wasn't there a change in the warp scales sometime between TOS and TNG? Where in the new scale warp factors referred to speeds higher than the old warp factors?

e.g New Warp 5 > Old Warp 5 etc.
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Old June 4 2009, 01:12 PM   #4
teacake
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Re: A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

Deckerd wrote: View Post
Have you pointed out that warp anything is fantasy?
NO.

geez.
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Old June 4 2009, 01:15 PM   #5
Shawnster
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Re: A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

Despite the failure of the Transwarp Drive project, Starfleet was able to learn much information that improved warp travel. One of those improvements was the rescaling of the warp values. As pointed out above Warp 5 in TNG (and later) is faster than Warp 5 in TOS.

For proof you can show your son the warp speed chart found in the TOS Tech Manual and contrast it with the warp speed chart in the TNG Tech Manual. If you don't have these charts yourself I believe you can find them online.

Of course this rationalization doesn't explain how the Enterprise-D is able to go faster than Warp 10 in "All Good Things."
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Old June 4 2009, 01:46 PM   #6
AdmiralSteven
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Re: A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

SilentP wrote: View Post
Hehehe, poor child doesn't know what he's in for
This is why I shut my brain off and just watch it for the entertainment value. Well, try at least. There have been times when I do critique.
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Old June 4 2009, 02:05 PM   #7
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Re: A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

Shawnster wrote: View Post
Of course this rationalization doesn't explain how the Enterprise-D is able to go faster than Warp 10 in "All Good Things."
My explanations:

1) Poor way of showing technological advance in the alternate future.

2) Yet another warp scale change, which now ditches Warp 10 as an absolute limit.
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Old June 4 2009, 03:11 PM   #8
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Re: A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

Just tell him the wizard did it.
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Old June 4 2009, 03:21 PM   #9
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Re: A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

They moved the goalposts by the 24th Century, as already pointed out. I'm sure the techno types can correct me, but in TOS when Scotty is running around pulling his hair out because the ship isn't supposed to be doing Warp 14, compared to TNG's scale it's doing 9.975 or something. There seems to be an infinite progression of increased speed between Warp 9 and 10.

Their reworked Warp 10 limit would mean you occupy everywhere all at once, presumably in trillions of microscopic pieces...

Fortunately ENT never ran into this nonsense, with the ship barely able to survive doing Warp 5 for any length of time. Which on TNG's scale is probably an even slower speed.

I hope we don't need to get out and push indeed...
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Old June 4 2009, 03:34 PM   #10
KimMH
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Re: A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

Kudos to you for having him watch ST with you. The family who Treks together stays together you know . . .
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Old June 4 2009, 03:39 PM   #11
thedude
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Re: A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

The warp scale was modified (to my knowledge) 3 times within the canon of Trek. One for the movies, once for Excelsior, and once for Next Gen. Somewhere out there is a comparison of the "old" warp scale to the new one... I'd put money on Praetor having it laying around somewhere ;-)
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Old June 4 2009, 03:55 PM   #12
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Re: A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

Honestly, I think it's fun to get a little worked up about canon sometimes. Especially if you're with friends. It's usually good for a few laughs.
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Old June 4 2009, 03:59 PM   #13
cwl
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Re: A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

talking of Excelsior why in ST:VI was she returning home from the Beta Quadrant 'under full impulse power'?
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Old June 4 2009, 07:32 PM   #14
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Re: A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

Tell him that it's an alternate timeline. That always works for me!
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Old June 4 2009, 07:50 PM   #15
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Re: A Boy's First Canon Freak-Out

teacake wrote: View Post
So tonight I'm watching TOS-R with my 12 year old. He's seen the first season of TOS, all of VOY, all of ENT and the first 2 seasons of DS9 (and half the movies and TAS). We're watching "The Changeling". Nomad takes control of the ship and increases the speed to warp 9, warp 10, warp 11..

AND THE KID FREAKS OUT!

"They can't go past warp 10, what about Threshold?! Why was that the threshold in Threshold if they already went to warp 11 in TOS?!"

hahahaha..

So is there any in-universe answer to this one? He was not satisfied with my answer of "VOY ignored this and was in error".




How cute
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