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Old May 3 2009, 07:41 PM   #1
Praetor
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Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
That's not MY ship...!

The recent argument regarding fan reaction to the redesign of the Enterprise for XI has made me ponder the past reactions to 'redesigns' of the ship. (And if you decide to mention that here, don't forget the spoiler code!!)

Now, I grew up on TNG, the first six films, and TOS, so for me, the original 1701, refit, Excelsior, and Enterprise-D were all equally valid ships to fly the Trek flag. I understand that the refit met with some misgivings at the time, that many fans were upset with the prospect of Excelsior becoming Kirk's new ship in the films, and the D was viewed variously as 'too big' or 'disproporitionate' or whatever, and therefore each met with some controversy at the time of their introduction that was before my time, so I'd quite like to hear about that.

I imagine there may be some who disliked the Cardassian architecture of DS9, or the 'warship' that was the Defiant, or the Voyager (which is one of my all-time favorites.) And of course, I'm not a fan of the reasons behind the destruction of the D and it's replacement with the E, even though I like the E, and I certainly wasn't fond of the NX-01 when I first saw it mostly because of the resemblance to the Akira class, but have grown to like it.

So let's hear it. Have you ever felt like a 'new' ship, any of them, from refit to XI, didn't 'belong' in Trek? If so, which ones, and why?
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Last edited by Praetor; May 3 2009 at 08:10 PM.
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Old May 3 2009, 08:03 PM   #2
sbk1234
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Re: That's not MY ship...!

My only concern about the new ship was how it would contradict a continuity with what has gone on before. I find I really have to push the bounds of plausibility to say that this is the same ship that we saw all those years on TOS.

As for how it looks, I think it's a neat looking vessel, otherwise.
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Old May 3 2009, 11:02 PM   #3
miraclefan
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Re: That's not MY ship...!

sbk1234 wrote: View Post
My only concern about the new ship was how it would contradict a continuity with what has gone on before. I find I really have to push the bounds of plausibility to say that this is the same ship that we saw all those years on TOS.
You do know that this is a nu-universe right? this isn't supposed to be the ''original'' ship.
Praetor wrote: View Post

Now, I grew up on TNG, the first six films, and TOS, so for me, the original 1701, refit, Excelsior, and Enterprise-D were all equally valid ships to fly the Trek flag. I understand that the refit met with some misgivings at the time, that many fans were upset with the prospect of Excelsior becoming Kirk's new ship in the films, and the D was viewed variously as 'too big' or 'disproporitionate' or whatever, and therefore each met with some controversy at the time of their introduction that was before my time, so I'd quite like to hear about that.

So let's hear it. Have you ever felt like a 'new' ship, any of them, from refit to XI, didn't 'belong' in Trek? If so, which ones, and why?
Praetor, you and I must be near the same age range because I too grew up with just TNG & the TOS movies! Also I don't think I ever thought of a starfleet TREK ship as ever being out of place or strange. Now the Klingon d-7 type battlecrusier in the ENT ep unexpected WAS deffinatly out of place, but other then that NO!
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Old May 3 2009, 11:36 PM   #4
Praetor
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Re: That's not MY ship...!

Ah, we must be about the same age then, miraclefan. (I'm 24.) And I'm also then not surpised and indeed glad to hear that we are of similar minds about it.
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Old May 3 2009, 11:47 PM   #5
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Re: That's not MY ship...!

There's a difference between making a new ship and redesigning an existing one for the same time period.
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Old May 3 2009, 11:59 PM   #6
Praetor
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Re: That's not MY ship...!

Yeah, but even with the idea of redesigning, some people have clearly found a newer ship to not be 'worthy' in the past. Consider the backlash at the prospect of giving Kirk and company the Excelsior.
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Old May 4 2009, 12:06 AM   #7
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Re: That's not MY ship...!

[QUOTE=miraclefan;2899048]
sbk1234 wrote: View Post
My only concern about the new ship was how it would contradict a continuity with what has gone on before. I find I really have to push the bounds of plausibility to say that this is the same ship that we saw all those years on TOS.
You do know that this is a nu-universe right? this isn't supposed to be the ''original'' ship.
Praetor wrote: View Post
I realize that now. However, months ago, it seemed less certain, at least to me if it would be a genuine reboot, or if they were simply trying to do a prequel. There was a part of me that thought they were trying to pass it as the "original" ship. I know better now. Including Leonard Nimoy in the film also served to cloud this issue for me. As a brand-new ship, I think it looks fine. I think it would have actually passed for the upgraded Enterprise in TMP, if they had gone this way.
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Old May 4 2009, 12:14 AM   #8
Praetor
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Re: That's not MY ship...!

Eek, ya got some messed up quotes there, sbk1234.

I think I still understand what you're saying. Are there any ships you particularly dislike for the 'worthy' reason?
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Old May 4 2009, 12:22 AM   #9
The Wormhole
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Re: That's not MY ship...!

miraclefan wrote: View Post
Now the Klingon d-7 type battlecrusier in the ENT ep unexpected WAS deffinatly out of place, but other then that NO!
That wasn't a D-7, that was a K't'inga, which was definately out of place. A D-7 might have been easier to accept, but a K't'inga definately had no place in the 22nd century.
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Old May 4 2009, 12:33 AM   #10
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Re: That's not MY ship...!

IMHO this new Enterprise is not capable of the range of beauty shots as either the original or refit. Where is the beauty in this design? The Galaxy had a wonderful side profile, the Excelsior class looked good from below and front, Ambassador class had a few. This Enterprise brings nothing new to the table.

Its not going to wreck the movie for me since its design is clearly Federation inspired. Some of its features make sense given the massive stresses of contructing a ship under Earth gravity. The weight of the saucer would have snapped the original Jeffries neck off.

Last edited by Xerxes1979; May 4 2009 at 01:03 AM.
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Old May 4 2009, 12:40 AM   #11
miraclefan
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Re: That's not MY ship...!

Praetor wrote: View Post
Ah, we must be about the same age then, miraclefan. (I'm 24.) And I'm also then not surpised and indeed glad to hear that we are of similar minds about it.
I'm 23.
The Wormhole wrote: View Post
miraclefan wrote: View Post
Now the Klingon d-7 type battlecrusier in the ENT ep unexpected WAS deffinatly out of place, but other then that NO!
That wasn't a D-7, that was a K't'inga, which was definately out of place. A D-7 might have been easier to accept, but a K't'inga definately had no place in the 22nd century.
My mistake! but you can see what happens when a ship looks just a little out of place, it messes with your mind!
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Old May 4 2009, 03:05 AM   #12
sbk1234
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Re: That's not MY ship...!

Praetor wrote: View Post
Eek, ya got some messed up quotes there, sbk1234.

I think I still understand what you're saying. Are there any ships you particularly dislike for the 'worthy' reason?
Yeah. I figured if I tried to fix it, I'd just make it worse. As for not worthy, I've never really had any problem with any. Although, I also find the Defiant an ugly ship, but it's completly acceptable for a worthy Trek ship.


I call it the "War Tortoise."
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Old May 4 2009, 03:15 AM   #13
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: That's not MY ship...!

I didn't like the Enterprise D when I first saw it, but got to like it quite a bit.

I thought the Enterprise E was hideous at first, and still do.
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Old May 4 2009, 03:25 AM   #14
miraclefan
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Re: That's not MY ship...!

Dennis wrote: View Post
I didn't like the Enterprise D when I first saw it, but got to like it quite a bit.

I thought the Enterprise E was hideous at first, and still do.
I was the same as you with regards to the 1701-D, but I disagree with you on the 1701-E I love that ship!
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Old May 4 2009, 04:22 AM   #15
M'Sharak
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Re: That's not MY ship...!

Praetor wrote: View Post

So let's hear it. Have you ever felt like a 'new' ship, any of them, from refit to XI, didn't 'belong' in Trek? If so, which ones, and why?
It's never gone so far for me as thinking any ship didn't belong. I was never wild about the 1701-D and still am not, but it's part of Trek. I liked the Defiant, have no quibble at all with Voyager and think the NX-01 looks great. (I had no idea there was any such thing as the Akira class before I got here, but learning about it later didn't diminish the NX-class design for me one bit.)

The one which gave the the "what did they do that for?" feeling was the refit in TMP. I got over it pretty quickly, of course, and suffered no lasting trauma, but the high regard many other people have expressed and continue to express for that design is something I've never felt. Sure, it's got some pretty features, but I couldn't ever quite manage to see the whole as an improvement over the original 1701.
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