Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice... - Page 5

scotpens · April 27 2010, 11:28 PM

cooleddie74 wrote:

I've always preferred the original "Cage" version of the Keeper's voice. Just my own personal tastes.

I always preferred the altered "Menagerie" voice for the Keeper. It sounded more, well, alien. And the weird pitch made the voice sound androgynous, fitting the neuter appearance of the Talosians (who, as we know, were played by women).

number6 wrote:

gastrof wrote:

There was no such machine. Desilu hired real aliens. It was cheaper than renting the device.

Desi Arnaz was the voice of the Keeper.

Of course. That explains the Keeper's Cuban accent!

alchemist · April 28 2010, 06:07 PM

jefferiestubes8 wrote:

The voice of the keeper was done by actor Malachi Throne.

When footage of The Cage was used for the two part episode The Menagerie additional dialog for the Keeper needed to be recorded because the character addresses Captain Kirk by name. Throne was called in to reprise his voiceover and was also cast as Commodore Mendez (most likely a cost saving measure–two birds with one stone, so to speak). During post production it became obvious with repeated listening's of the audio track that the Keeper and the Mendez character's voice were done by the same actor. To solve this problem the recording of Throne's Keeper voice had its pitch changed.

Long before digital pitch shifters, there was the Eltro Information Rate Changer, a 1/4" tape machine with four play heads mounted on a rotating drum.

There is a photo of the Mark II Eltro Information Rate Changer hardware unit at the link below [thanks Capt.Mac].
http://www.startrekhistory.com/cagepage.html
and here is another very famous example of this analog audio processing tool used on a voice:

Yep. And "Rate Changer" = "Tempophon" See the discussion previously in this thread as well as the photo in this link: http://icasea.blogspot.com/2009/10/s...empophone.html

Also, this link has a cool video showing how the "phonogene" -- the granddaddy term -- essentially operates: http://www.joostnieuwenburg.nl/heads.html

jefferiestubes8 · April 28 2010, 06:59 PM

alchemist wrote:

how the "phonogene" -- the granddaddy term --

as alchemist mentions the Eltro Information Rate Changer harkens back to the phonogene which was created in 1953.

The initial phonogenes were manufactured in 1953 by two subcontractors: the chromatic phonogene by a company called Tolana, and the sliding version by the SAREG Company (Poullin 1999). A third version was developed later at ORTF.

pitch shifting:

An effect which enables a user to transpose the pitch of the input signal.
Pitch shift devices often allow the user to mix the input signal with the effected signal, thus creating a thicker, richer sound (e.g., parallel octaves or fifths). Some pitch shifters can also add very tiny shifts in pitch, thus creating a chorus-like effect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_unit

Eventually a digital pitch shifter was created by Eventide, the Eventide H949 Harmonizer (pitch shifter) hit the market in 1980.
although to do this technically

Digital pitch shifting requires temporal compression or expansion of audio data
and the addition or removal of small audio segments to compensate.

These days you could probably simulate the
Mark II Eltro Information Rate Changer /Springer Tempophon/phonogene
using a DAW audio software simulating a vintage digital pitch shifter effect VST plugin costing $49.
Audio Damage :: Discord v2
"Discord 2 takes the vintage pitch-shifting style..."
On the product page link below are 3 somewhat limited Demo examples.
http://www.audiodamage.com/effects/p....php?pid=AD011

Admiral Buzzkill · April 28 2010, 07:13 PM

number6 wrote:

Captain Robert April wrote:

GSchnitzer wrote:

Well, I found this comment in Solow's and Justman's book Inside Star Trek: The Real Story:

"Later, while dubbing various episodes, we took reality one step beyond. We rented a special machine that was used to change the pitch of people's voices without affecting the speed of the sound track, thereby keeping the dialogue 'in sync' with the picture. Although the device was large, clumsy to handle, and expensive, it helped make alien humanoids sound as alien as they looked."

So, I still don't get how this 1966 "black box" worked, but I take Bob Justman at his word that there was indeed some large, clumsy, expensive tehcnology available to have changed the pitch of Malachi Throne's voice--and, off the top of my head, probably Cloud Williams' in "The Omega Glory" and Lt. Mira Romaine's in "The Lights of Zetar."

Short answer: April was right.

Just repeat that a few times, get used to the sound of it...

Nope. You said they ran it through a synth and a fender amp.

This device is neither. It is a tape based pitch manipulator.

You lose.....again.

Captain Robert April · April 29 2010, 01:35 AM

My main point is that they ran the soundtrack through some device to change the tonality without changing the playback speed. My speculation of what that device might actually be is irrelevant, the main point remains, and has been confirmed.

QED

Joel_Kirk · April 29 2010, 01:38 AM

Someone probably already brought it out, but Meg Wyllie(sp?), the lead Talosian showed up on Night Court...just Brent Spiner would do...and that guy who portrayed an courtroom officer extra (who I would see as an extra on TNG)...

I don't know the name of that guy, so maybe someone could help me out...

Hober Mallow · May 2 2010, 08:16 AM

Joel_Kirk wrote:

Someone probably already brought it out, but Meg Wyllie(sp?), the lead Talosian showed up on Night Court...

I remember her a couple times on the Golden Girls, too.

Captain Robert April · May 3 2010, 10:00 PM

She also had a recurring part on "Mad About You". And reportedly was still driving the car she bought with the money from "The Cage".

Joel_Kirk · May 4 2010, 09:41 AM

Hober Mallow wrote:

Joel_Kirk wrote:

Someone probably already brought it out, but Meg Wyllie(sp?), the lead Talosian showed up on Night Court...

I remember her a couple times on the Golden Girls, too.

Captain Robert April wrote:

She also had a recurring part on "Mad About You". And reportedly was still driving the car she bought with the money from "The Cage".

Interesting....

FormerLurker · May 4 2010, 10:31 PM

And she was Lance Guest's grandma in "The Last Starfighter." Unless she was Catherine Mary Stewart's grandma. I don't remember which, offhand.

FormerLurker · May 4 2010, 10:34 PM

Oh, and a good example of Roy Jensen's natural speaking voice is in the John Wayne film "Big Jake." he plays the leader of the gang of thugs that tries to steal the strongbox from Jacob McCandles and his sons. John Wayne's Jacob kills him by shooting him from the shower stall with his 'greener' shotgun. His voice is quite a bit higher in pitch than Cloud William's.

Maurice · May 5 2010, 06:37 AM

FormerLurker wrote:

And she was Lance Guest's grandma in "The Last Starfighter." Unless she was Catherine Mary Stewart's grandma. I don't remember which, offhand.

She played Granny to Maggie, not Alex.

FormerLurker · May 9 2010, 02:06 AM

I did say I didn't remember.

Orcus · May 18 2010, 11:02 AM

Captain Robert April wrote:

She also had a recurring part on "Mad About You". And reportedly was still driving the car she bought with the money from "The Cage".

She obviously bought a good 'un, then...

RAMA · May 18 2010, 04:26 PM

Awesome thread guys...loved the detective work...rationalizing from the general to the specific...and then finally the evidence!

The Cage site was awesome as well.

RAMA

April 29 2010, 01:35 AM	#65
Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...	Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice My main point is that they ran the soundtrack through some device to change the tonality without changing the playback speed. My speculation of what that device might actually be is irrelevant, the main point remains, and has been confirmed. QED

April 29 2010, 01:38 AM	#66
Joel_Kirk Commodore Location: San Francisco...	Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice Someone probably already brought it out, but Meg Wyllie(sp?), the lead Talosian showed up on Night Court...just Brent Spiner would do...and that guy who portrayed an courtroom officer extra (who I would see as an extra on TNG)... I don't know the name of that guy, so maybe someone could help me out... __________________ 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Joel_Kirk 2.Experiences As a Black Male on Trektoday

May 3 2010, 10:00 PM	#68
Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...	Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice She also had a recurring part on "Mad About You". And reportedly was still driving the car she bought with the money from "The Cage".

May 4 2010, 10:31 PM	#70
FormerLurker Captain	Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice And she was Lance Guest's grandma in "The Last Starfighter." Unless she was Catherine Mary Stewart's grandma. I don't remember which, offhand.

May 4 2010, 10:34 PM	#71
FormerLurker Captain	Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice Oh, and a good example of Roy Jensen's natural speaking voice is in the John Wayne film "Big Jake." he plays the leader of the gang of thugs that tries to steal the strongbox from Jacob McCandles and his sons. John Wayne's Jacob kills him by shooting him from the shower stall with his 'greener' shotgun. His voice is quite a bit higher in pitch than Cloud William's.

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

May 9 2010, 02:06 AM	#73
FormerLurker Captain	Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice I did say I didn't remember.

May 18 2010, 04:26 PM	#75
RAMA Vice Admiral Location: NJ, USA	Re: Just saw "The Cage" on TOSR- Help me out here...the Keeper's voice Awesome thread guys...loved the detective work...rationalizing from the general to the specific...and then finally the evidence! The Cage site was awesome as well. RAMA __________________ “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”—Stephen R. Covey