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Old May 2 2009, 09:01 PM   #31
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
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Location: Tatoinne
Re: fix Heroes (spoilers thru S3 finale)

Peter never should have been nerfed. They'd already given him a limitation in season one: he can only use a specific power when he draws on the emotions he feels for the character he leeched it from. He can't constantly use his powers or he'll overload and go boom.
I'd be happy if they'd re-set Peter to the S1 situation. The limitation that using powers harms his health is enough to stop him from reading everyone's minds as a matter of course, stopping time, etc, and therefore killing every plotline before it gets a chance to get going. I think the boom-problem was caused by Ted's power specifically. So the danger to Peter would simply be that using his powers could cripple him physically or kill him.

Admiral2 wrote: View Post
Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
2. If you think it is unsalvageable, where did they go wrong and describe what they should have done instead.
They went wrong by putting it on the air in the first place.

What NBC shoulda done was reject the pilot.
Because they've done so well with every other show they've tried! By NBC standards, Heroes is still a decent show, how sad is that.
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Old May 2 2009, 09:43 PM   #32
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Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland
Re: fix Heroes (spoilers thru S3 finale)

NBC need's to use Hiro to go back in time and fire that hack Tim Kring and his staff, give Bryan Fuller his own staf and fix the show. I am never one to join the wagon and bash a show so much that I watch and never had the problems other people had with season 2 but OMFG the 3rd season has been so bad plotwise, boring beyond belief in other times and has given ZERO ZERO ZERO payoff.

I might not watch season 4.
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Old May 4 2009, 07:22 PM   #33
Rear Admiral
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Re: fix Heroes (spoilers thru S3 finale)

Perhaps it's the Chicago Fan in me, but I have hope things might turn around, in spite of the missteps of the finale. The fact that Angela and HRG are reforming the Company to help people with abilites is a step in the right direction. I agree that a new adversary is needed. Someone with some real power (and not just superpowers). Not some wishy washy, flip flopper like Sylar. In the right hands, Sylar could have been a weapon in the hands of a far more insidious, more higher up person. And the adversary has to think he or she is fully justified in their actions, and not some 2 dimensional Trekian moustache twirler. There was a lot of potential in person like Linderman. And lines have to be drawn this time. We should know what everyone's motivations are this late in the game. I hope Kring does the right thing and maintain the day to day production and goes to the network hat in hand and gets the cash while Fuller is allowed to use all his creative prowess unfettered.
If God is willing but not able to prevent evil, he is not omnipotent. If he is able but not willing, then he is malevolent. If he is willing and able, then whence come evil? If he is neither willing nor able, then why call him God?
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Old May 4 2009, 07:24 PM   #34
Rear Admiral
Location: Seattle, Washington, USA
Re: fix Heroes (spoilers thru S3 finale)

Cky wrote: View Post
I fucking hate Ali Larter, she's such a dry and soulless actor.
Yeah, but among all the dry and soulless actresses on TV today (especially on the CW), she's smokin' hot!
If God is willing but not able to prevent evil, he is not omnipotent. If he is able but not willing, then he is malevolent. If he is willing and able, then whence come evil? If he is neither willing nor able, then why call him God?
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Old May 4 2009, 07:47 PM   #35
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Location: With the most wonderful man in the world!
Re: fix Heroes (spoilers thru S3 finale)

Dar70 wrote: View Post
I stopped watching with the episode that ripped off the fly. This show was getting just plain boring to tell the truth.
I stopped watching at the end of the woeful S2 and, from what I have been told, it gets even worse after THAT.

Apparently there are now future versions battling mirror universe versions and sometimes people are good and then just go bad........sounds like a complete mess!

Cancel this turkey and come up with something new.
Lo and the faithful OT generation are delivered from the childhood-raping shittiness of the PT as a New Hope dawns and ........ The Force Awakens
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Old May 5 2009, 01:06 AM   #36
Location: El Reno, Okla
Re: fix Heroes (spoilers thru S3 finale)

Instead of ripping off X-Men Plots, let's rip off some Legion of Superheroes plots.

Five Year Gap: When the original LSH book was cancelled and brought back, they skipped 5 years. And in comics, a lot can happen in 5 years!. Imagine if Heores just skipped 1 year? Who is a hero, who is a villan and who are these people? Is that Sylar or Nathan? One of the things that made the first year so good was that we were still discovering who these people were, Past & Present.

Iron Curtain of Time: The Legion has Time Travel, but it also has the Time Trapper. He lives at the end of time and really doesn't like people pissing in his pool. If you give Hiro back his full abilities, then there should be others with similar powers. Imagine somone from the past traveling to our time, should they be allowed to return? Imagine someone from the future coming back to stop all time travel, are they a hero or a villian?

Substitute Legion: Not everyone with powers is a hero or a villan. Sometimes the powers just are not very useful or could be like the Jokers in Wild Cards and have negative effects. Are there people with powers hiding from the world like the Morlocks of X-Men? Are the monsters of legends; vampires, werewolves, ghosts and witches actually people with powers?

Fatal Five: There have to be villians to oppose the heroes and they need to be EVIL! None of this shades of grey stuff, the Fatal Five destroy planets! The so-called villians from Level 5 were pathetic! We have superpowers, so let's go rob a bank! Please...
The original concept was that the people's powers were based on their personalities. Peter empathized with people, Nathan was "above" other people, Hiro wanted to escape being mundane, etc. Humanity has a dark side and the villians should show this in all it's darkness.
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Old May 5 2009, 04:51 AM   #37
Temis the Vorta
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Location: Tatoinne
Re: fix Heroes (spoilers thru S3 finale)

Dar70 wrote: View Post

Cancel this turkey and come up with something new.
Look at the "something new" NBC has come up with for fall.

It's like they're trying to be as uncreative as humanly possible. Their idea of originality is to do a doctor show...wait for it!!!...from the nurses' point of view!

Say what you want about Heroes' crap writing, at least it isn't exactly like every other show on TV.
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Old May 5 2009, 09:12 AM   #38
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Re: fix Heroes (spoilers thru S3 finale)

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Yknow what's missing in this show? Why aren't smart regular people realizing that the existence of metahumans can be used to get themselves money and power. The essential problem of metahumans is that they cause power imbalances. They are too powerful versus normal people, but if they were somehow captured and manipulated by normal people, they could end up making the normals too powerful and undermining the social order.

If normals learned about the existence of metahumans, their first reaction would be fear and their second reaction would be greed. How can I manipulate or coerce these people to use their powers in my self-interest? The metahumans may seem dazzingly powerful but they are still a mere handful of people. Imagine Sylar vs a nation with a sizeable army - he could do some damage but they'd corral him pretty quickly, either through a clever plan, brute force. or just the promise to feed him metahumans on a regular basis.

should want to use Sylar (or any of the rest) in nefarious schemes, or just dissect them. Danko actually had the right idea, he just needed to stay further ahead of Sylar than he did. Not letting his colleagues know Sylar was a shapeshifter, for instance. If the normals stuck together and came up with clever plans, they could manipulate a deluded nutcase like Sylar into doing their bidding. As long as he's getting what he wants, he'll do as they say.

The irony that these incredibly powerful metahumans are actually more threatened than threats is interesting. Many of them are not terribly smart and even the smart ones have psychological issues that make them prone to manipulation. Now that several normals know the truth, that threat should be coalescing rapidly.
Manipulation? Nefarious? Nah. They just need money. And they'd to do it make money, likely in fairly reasonable ways.

Now, most standard superhero powers do not lend themselves well to enhancing corporate productivity. This is simply the nature of the genre rather than any specific limit, however. Certain powers are extraordinary money-saving when applied correctly.

Healing is the most obvious, or it should be. Linderman made a fortune in organized crime, but he could have made even more as a medical doctor. The ability to cure the incurable fetches a high premium.

Telepathy has obvious uses as well. Babylon 5 had commercial telepaths to ensure honesty in business dealings, which does make sense. It's also fairly useful for short range communication in environments where radios won't work or are too dangerous to use.

Teleportation has the most obvious commercial applications, freight transport. Instantaneous transmission of goods without the expenditure of fuel. Thats worth millions a year, at least, probably billions or trillions depending on how much can be teleported at once.

And Candice was a total idiot. With her ability to project illusions, she would have made a fortune in the entertainment industry. There would have been no need for special effects, or even actors. She could have just bought an interesting spec script and pointed a camera at an empty room for two hours, projecting the illusion of a kickass $250 million dollar blockbuster movie.

Sylar's base power allows him to revolutionize any field of science with minimal study. Five minutes of examining subatomic particles and he could give us an accurate theory of everything. Proper application of his powers could lead to quintillions of dollars of profit in the long term.

Weather Controllers are absurdly versatile in their potential applications. They can do everything from making airplanes fly faster and more efficiently to improving crop yeilds. The fuel savings produced by a weather controller manipulating the winds is enough to have any air freight company employ as many as is possible.

Personally, I think they went the wrong direction with recreating the Company. Instead, they should have gone fully public, and have Nathan introduce a Bill to create an independent agency to perform the functions of the Company with complete transparency, autonomy, and accountability. Essentially, make it an independent federal agency, which Congress has the power to create. That agency would have three branches, one law enforcement, one educational, and one scientific.
The primary purpose is to identify people with powers and to teach them how to use their powers ethically, for which the educational branch exists. People don't have to accept training, unless their power is both lethal and difficult or impossible to control. If it is, they the Agency can get a court order requiring power suppression if the training offer isn't accepted. This way, nuclear man incidents can be avoided without being absurdly totalitarian. Convicted felons with lethal or invasive (mind control and such) powers are required to undergo power suppression treatments as a matter of course, just as felons are prohibited from owning firearms. Those with passive and non-invasive powers, such as regeneration, water breathing, and flight, however, are not.

The enforcement branch is tasked with aiding law enforcement in cases involving superpowered individuals, both local and federal, and has ties to both the DOJ and DHS, but isn't under either of them. They can assert investigatory jurisdiction in any case where a person with an ability is a suspect or a victim and they can make arrests, but they don't have the authority to initiate prosecutions or hold prisoners.
Their primary role is to develop procedures and protocols to allow the preexisting justice system to deal with superpowered criminals.

And, of course, the science branch would fund and perform peer-reviewed research using all commonly accepted ethical and procedural rigor.

PR would also be a huge concern. The idea is for the Agency to give a lovable trustworthy public face to superpowers, to assuage potential public fears.

It is the lack of transparency, checks, balances, and safeguards that led to The Company's corruption, and that corruption will eventually seep back in if it is allowed to remain a secret organization. They're also not going to be able to keep the secret forever, not without resorting to assassinations and mind-wiping again.

My personal suggesting for fixing the show, make Hayden Panettiere train with a USMC close combat instructor until she can reliably kill a man with her bare hands, and then with a movie fight choreographer until she learns to apply those skills without actually killing her acting partner.
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