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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 706 62.70%
Above Average 213 18.92%
Average 84 7.46%
Below Average 46 4.09%
Poor 77 6.84%
Voters: 1126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 10 2009, 04:33 PM   #1276
Mr. Chubbykins
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
The writers outright referenced "Parallels" on TrekWeb as an example of how split timelines can co-exist. The Mirror Universe continued to thrive across two additional spinoffs after Kirk and Co. left it. Nothing's been wiped out.
Ooh, a Trek-logic counter-arguement. Cool!

Right, just did a quick double-check of "Parallels". Mmm... okay, I see where you and Bob Orico ( http://trekmovie.com/2008/12/11/bob-...-real-science/ ) are coming from. But my interpretation of Trek-logic is that the events in that episode did not involve timetravel, and were more closely related to the rules Trek applies to the Mirror Universe. This quote from the article was pretty relevant:
Anthony: Star Trek has not always been consistent in this regard. For example both "Yesterday’s Enterprise" and "City on the Edge of Forever" seem to follow the Back to the Future rules of time travel, where new timelines overwrite previous timelines.
Bob: We have to deal with it, with the fact that Star Trek episodes that don’t conform to our theory of it, also do notconform to the latest greatest, most highly tested scientific theory in human history. So Iwould default that it is the science that counts. And say in the case of "Star Trek IV," it could go either way. They cross over to a parallel universe and grab some whales and bring them back and save their own universe.
*hits head on keyboard* This isn't like deciding Klingons would look scarier with cooler prosthetics, this is like saying physics precludes faster than light travel so they've decided turn the Enterprise into a generation ship. It seems if Kirk had paid more attention in Basics of Quantum Mechanics class he could have decided to live happily ever after with Edith, safe in the knowledge that "his" future timeline was just fine. Somewhere.
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Old May 10 2009, 04:49 PM   #1277
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Mr. Chubbykins wrote: View Post
Cyke101 wrote: View Post
The writers outright referenced "Parallels" on TrekWeb as an example of how split timelines can co-exist. The Mirror Universe continued to thrive across two additional spinoffs after Kirk and Co. left it. Nothing's been wiped out.
Ooh, a Trek-logic counter-arguement. Cool!

Right, just did a quick double-check of "Parallels". Mmm... okay, I see where you and Bob Orico ( http://trekmovie.com/2008/12/11/bob-...-real-science/ ) are coming from. But my interpretation of Trek-logic is that the events in that episode did not involve timetravel, and were more closely related to the rules Trek applies to the Mirror Universe. This quote from the article was pretty relevant:
Anthony: Star Trek has not always been consistent in this regard. For example both "Yesterday’s Enterprise" and "City on the Edge of Forever" seem to follow the Back to the Future rules of time travel, where new timelines overwrite previous timelines.
Bob: We have to deal with it, with the fact that Star Trek episodes that don’t conform to our theory of it, also do notconform to the latest greatest, most highly tested scientific theory in human history. So Iwould default that it is the science that counts. And say in the case of "Star Trek IV," it could go either way. They cross over to a parallel universe and grab some whales and bring them back and save their own universe.
*hits head on keyboard* This isn't like deciding Klingons would look scarier with cooler prosthetics, this is like saying physics precludes faster than light travel so they've decided turn the Enterprise into a generation ship. It seems if Kirk had paid more attention in Basics of Quantum Mechanics class he could have decided to live happily ever after with Edith, safe in the knowledge that "his" future timeline was just fine. Somewhere.
Say, perhaps, a Nexus of some sort? Then again, one man's cabin is another man's subconscious-Freudian-expression-for-his-familial-need fantasy.
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Old May 10 2009, 05:23 PM   #1278
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Re: A personal take on... that movie

AJBryant wrote: View Post
So. Um....

So.

Given the story we have in the film there is -- or will be -- no Journey to Babel. No Amok Time. No Kolinar for Spock. No Balance of Terror. No Menagerie. No Shore Leave. No Where No Man Has Gone Before. No This Side of Paradise.

Heck, to think of it, Spock never comes back after Wrath of Khan as there's no Vulcan temple for a priestess to perform the refusion of his katra and body. Come to think of it, given this story line, Kirk would never have hooked up with Carol Marcus. No David, then. And no "successful" Genesis test, as it was DAVID'S choice to use protomatter that made it... um... work.

So how come we all already know about Romulan ships? Kirk recognizes it and knows who they were. And Uhura already knows all three (!) Romulan dialects.

Doctors do not attend the academy. They aren't line officers. Ensigns are not 17. They are graduates of the academy, and 21 at least.

Spock and Uhura? The hell?

Could the camera have been any more frenetic in its moves and angles? Jeezus, could we have had more lens flare?

So the Enterprise doesn't have a brig, Spock has to actually eject Kirk off onto an ice planet? Since when is marooning people to their possible deaths part of Starfleet regs? Ah, I know. It was necessary for the plot. Kirk meeting "Spock Prime" *that way* was really contrived. "How did you find me?" -- REALLY. (And Vulcan has an *ice* moon that has an atmosphere?)

Promoting a third-year cadet to first officer? And then captain? The hell? Oh, I guess there's no Obsession, either. No Private Little War.

And... hey. Afterthought. You mean someone can't fire a photon torpedo or something at that drill? Vulcan has NO planetary defenses?

Yeah, I'm kinda happy there was no Magic Reset Button -- but... damn. Losing Vulcan was a hell of a change to make for the sake of an "ooh ahh" factor. It totally overshadows the Enterprise redesign issues (I'm not a big fan of the James Cameron's Titanic engine room take on the Enterprise interiors. Yuck. Why are there big glass tubes full of water running around in engineering?

Yeah, it was a good movie.

But it wasn't MY Star Trek. Among other things, I really missed my "Trek music" cues. The beauty shots of the Enterprise *screamed* for them. Will I see it again? Yeah, probably. I will buy the DVD, of course.

But... damn. I'm really not happy.

you've no reason to be.

ALL those things did and do and will happen... in the other timeline. the original one. and, I keep trying to say this, given necessity, we can see it happening if we choose to (in dvds etc AND on screen). JJ and crew can easily show us the original timeline if they want to.

I have no idea why people are so upset. cheer up, people, Star Trek is back and kicking.
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Old May 10 2009, 05:30 PM   #1279
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

archeryguy1701 wrote: View Post
I'm afraid to leave this thread alone for more than a few minutes at a time because if I don't check it for more than an hour or two, it absolutely explodes to the point where it's nearly impossible to catch back up!
Seconded! I left for a second viewing yesterday and there are almost three hundred new posts! I barely got through a third of that trying to catch up.

I went with a non-Trek fan yeserday and she came back converted. The film started at 5:15 (so 5:30 really) and she was still talking about it until the early hours of the morning about how good it was, how much she loved the actors and how all her buried memories of the original popped up. She was almost in tears at the Kelvin sequence and was hooked throughout.

My dad also saw it for the first time and sent me his thoughts, which were:

Well - What can I say? STUNNED!!! What a movie and close to perfection. The actors - every one of them - were fantastic, the sets awesome and the script just brilliant! Star Trek lived up to its billing - and more, much, much more! Changing the timeline was just brilliant and for the very first time - since the original TV series and including ALL movies and shows - this took us back to Captain Kirk and his crew and the energy it lost with an older crew and future crews. Energy? Man it's over six hours later and I'm still tingling! I loved the Captain Pike role (from the Star Trek pilot) and the irony that he was in a wheelchair at the end (as was his his character in the second series of Star Trek). I loved the guy who played "Bones" - if I shut my eyes I can hear the original! Pine's Kirk is the James T. Kirk we loved in the TV series and the Kirk that Shatner couldn't revive in the movies - too old! Pegg as Scottie took a while to make an appearance but boy it was well worth the wait - he took the character, and it wasn't Doohan - it was the Scottie we loved in the sixties. The change in timeline and events bringing Spock's feelings to the fore is THE stroke of genious - Nimoy had always been limited in this role - there is room now for a new and improved and developing character in Spock. Brilliant!

Even before the credits came up there was sporadic applause in the theater and when the closing credits did come up there was a spontanious applause from all of the audience - us too. What a wonderful feeling, 40 years a Trekkie and this was my proudest moment - this was the BEST it gets. LOVED IT!!!
May be geeky, but considering at times all me and my dad had in common (he pretty much raised me on it) was Star Trek it feels great to know he loved it too.
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Old May 10 2009, 05:31 PM   #1280
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I was BLOWN away! I loved it.
I loved the way they Warped. The sound in the theater was amazing.

Chris Pine had me laughing my but off with the Kirk Impressions (William Shatner).



Also Is there a thread discussing ships seen in the movie?
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Old May 10 2009, 05:35 PM   #1281
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I don't claim to be one of the great thinkers here but early on into this film I could easily segue into a parallel universe dimension. Steven Hawking, our generations Einstein, says they are very likely...so why make it harder than it is?

Thursday I believed in the existence of Vulcan and Spocks mom by Friday evening things changed. You have to make a leap of faith to really enjoy sci-fi otherwise you'll be like the crew at mystery science theater.

imo this movie was so good I'm surprised the topic of sustainability hasn't come up yet. Like how can they possibly top this?
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Old May 10 2009, 05:39 PM   #1282
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I just saw the movie, and I just have to say this..,

Enterprise didn't violate canon nearly as much as this movie did. I'm fairly disappointed in this movie. JMHO!
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Old May 10 2009, 05:44 PM   #1283
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Re: I just saw the movie, and I just have to say this..,

Chip wrote: View Post
Enterprise didn't violate canon nearly as much as this movie did. I'm fairly disappointed in this movie. JMHO!
What canon did it break if nearly everything after Nero's introduction means a new timeline? Keep in mind, even in the primary universe, we never really knew Spock's childhood origins or Scotty's achievements or McCoy's pre-Starfleet career. The only thing we knew was that they had them.
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Old May 10 2009, 05:48 PM   #1284
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Amanda Grayson dying, Vulcan getting destroyed and never existing in the late 23rd, or 24th centuries, the knowledge of what Romulans look like.
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Old May 10 2009, 05:49 PM   #1285
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Chip wrote: View Post
Amanda Grayson dying, Vulcan getting destroyed and never existing in the late 23rd, or 24th centuries, the knowledge of what Romulans look like.
All of which happened because Nero came (including the first appearance of a Romulan face to Starfleet), which again means that those events occurred in an alternate timeline and not the primary timeline. No canon was violated.

Remember, the alternate timeline broke away from the primary only after Nero came. Anything before that remains the same, including the events of Enterprise. Nearly everything in significant Federation history after that is pretty much changed. Technically, the movie retconned nothing nor did it violate canon because of a divergent timeline.
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Old May 10 2009, 05:55 PM   #1286
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Actually the events of Enterprise are THE only things that have not been affected, because they took place before this movie. BTW, you mean that no one from the future (whether Daniels from the Temporal Cold War, or the time period where Captain Braxton is from) didn't decide to correct the timeline after Vulcan was destroyed? Or is Vulcan so insignificant that it wasn't worth saving?
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Old May 10 2009, 05:59 PM   #1287
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Chip wrote: View Post
Actually the events of Enterprise are THE only things that have not been affected, because they took place before this movie.
I just said that. Read the posts better:

Cyke101 wrote: View Post
Anything before that remains the same, including the events of Enterprise.
Moving on...

BTW, you mean that no one from the future (whether Daniels from the Temporal Cold War, or the time period where Captain Braxton is from) didn't decide to correct the timeline after Vulcan was destroyed? Or is Vulcan so insignificant that it wasn't worth saving?
Where was this Temporal Starfleet during Yesterday's Enterprise or Time's Arrow or Year of Hell or the Visitor? Additionally, they messed up catastrophically during the Temporal Cold War as well. It could be that they're concerned with the prime universe and no one else's, and that they're still an infancy group and thus not quite good at their jobs just yet.

The problem here is that you think of time as strictly linear, as only one massive structure, rather than as a fabric or network. Frankly, if you must, go rewatch Parallels (an inspiration for the movie's writers) and see why these things events are possible. Even the events of Best of Both Worlds turned out much differently in that episode.
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Old May 10 2009, 06:02 PM   #1288
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Sorry, I misread your first post. Yes, I am aware of TNG Parallels, however once that episode aired, they didn't continue with the parallel universes, they stayed with the main one. However, I do find it amusing that so many people who bashed Enterprise for alledgedly violating canon, are singing this movie's praises! Again, JMHO!
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Old May 10 2009, 06:03 PM   #1289
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Chip wrote: View Post
Sorry, I misread your first post. Yes, I am aware of TNG Parallels, however once that episode aired, they didn't continue with the parallel universes, they stayed with the main one. However, I do find it amusing that so many people who bashed Enterprise for alledgedly violating canon, are singing this movie's praises! Again, JMHO!
And again, I'm asking you, what events in the canon were violated? As nuKirk said, enlighten me. All the examples you brought up were events that happened separately from the established canon, and thus didn't violate it at all. They're singing the movie's praises because they understand that this movie and all that came before it are two distinctly different properties now.
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Old May 10 2009, 06:04 PM   #1290
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Daniels, Braxton, and others like them are nothing more than the latest and greatest version of the reset button, which is exactly why this movie as so great- someone finally had the balls not to push it.
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