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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 706 62.70%
Above Average 213 18.92%
Average 84 7.46%
Below Average 46 4.09%
Poor 77 6.84%
Voters: 1126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 10 2009, 03:18 PM   #1261
jkladis
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

My friend, who has some decent screen time as an extra (cadet) said months ago "looks like fanwank" then later "looks excellent". This film succeeds at fulfilling just about every expectation, touched on every continuity direction (including reverse). It pulled in the majority of the fans while also rekindling its mass appeal. What an accomplished piece of work.

I had a great time -- exciting. Serious, funny, sad, excellent characters. Nothing too deep, but thank God they didn't go that route -- too early.

My investment in the fandom is about 30 years, so yeah, I had a hard time swallowing a lot of this. But I'll take in a repeat viewing (gotta bolster that sequel) and refine my opinion.

I gave it an above average grade for Excellent quality work minus old curmudgeon fan (with an open mind).
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Old May 10 2009, 03:19 PM   #1262
Mr. Chubbykins
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I hate this film.

I thought it was a great piece of cinema - in just the first 10 minutes, JJ got me really upset that George died! I thought it tied in very well with accepted Trek "rules" - all of the continuity differences made sense in the context of the timeline change caused by the black hole. I thought the new cast were perfect - no-one felt out of place.

I could have loved this film if they had just gone for "parallel universe" instead of "alternate timeline". As all true (aka borderline-OCD) Trek fans know, parallel universes like the Mirror Universe continue alongside the "standard" universe. Events that happen there don't replace those that happen in the "standard" universe. But when a time-travel event takes place that results in an alternate timeline, like the stranding of Tasha Yar in the past in "Yesterday's Enterprise", the new reality is the "standard" universe. And in the new film, it was an alternate timeline that was created.

All of the events depicted in TOS, TNG, DS9 and VOY will never happen. Kirk will never defend Spock's loyalty to Stiles when they first see Romulans. Spock won't grapple with his first command on the Galileo shuttlecraft and he'll never give that delighted cry of "Jim!" when he realises he didn't kill his friend on Vulcan. Sarek and Spock will never tease Amanda in Sickbay. I could go on, but I'm starting to get even more depressed than when I came out of the cinema.

Does anyone else think Parallel Universe would have been a better idea? Would that teeny, tiny script change have left a better taste in your mouth?
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Old May 10 2009, 03:30 PM   #1263
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Mr. Chubbykins wrote: View Post
Does anyone else think Parallel Universe would have been a better idea? Would that teeny, tiny script change have left a better taste in your mouth?
Y'know, for the vast majority of people (including the writers), parallel universe and alternate reality are synonymous. If you're arguing for a parallel universe, there's still 40 yrs of Trek continuity that will be ongoing in other forms of media.

Just as a black hole is a quantum singularity, a rose is still a rose by any other name (woo! A trek cliche and a mainstream cliche rolled into one!)
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Old May 10 2009, 03:32 PM   #1264
eriklatranyi
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Re: A personal take on... that movie

The negative comments can be summed up so far:

1) Typical Star Trek fan nit-picking of EVERY movie.
2) The desire for the return of Shatner and the original cast even though that can happen in later movies.
3) The thinking that what happens today in military academies must also happen in the 23rd century.
4) Contrarians (which explains many in point 1 above)
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Old May 10 2009, 03:35 PM   #1265
Kelso
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Mr. Chubbykins wrote: View Post
I hate this film.

I thought it was a great piece of cinema
Do you work for The Onion?

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Old May 10 2009, 03:38 PM   #1266
Cyke101
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Re: A personal take on... that movie

AJBryant wrote: View Post
Given the story we have in the film there is ... No Kolinar for Spock.
It seems that Spock quit Kolinar before anything could affect him. Who's to say he didn't quit Kolinar in the prime universe? When we saw him fail to pass Kolinar in TMP, he was already in his 40s. He could have quit it twice (frankly, I'm so pleasantly surprised that a reference to the much-maligned TMP was even mentioned here).

AJBryant wrote: View Post
Doctors do not attend the academy.
Why not? There could be more to space travel for doctors than we think. It's not unlike the current military system in the US with an accelerated program for those who qualify. McCoy spent 3 years at the Academy, as opposed to the X+ years that modern military docs have to progress.
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Old May 10 2009, 03:41 PM   #1267
eriklatranyi
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Mr. Chubbykins wrote: View Post
I hate this film.

Does anyone else think Parallel Universe would have been a better idea? Would that teeny, tiny script change have left a better taste in your mouth?
The idea that going back in time "fixes" the timeline is your first mistake, I believe.

There are those who believe that once an event is encountered with multiple potential outcomes that alternative timelines automatically exist for each possible outcome. Viewers are only watching a single timeline (and in the case of a "fix") a timeline that diverted to an alternative outcome.

This would mean there are trillions and trillions of timelines out there as almost every event has another potential outcome.

Lastly, the movie addresses the issue of fate in a unique way that is all Star Trek.

It is fate that this crew end up together....even when all events are pulling them apart.
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Old May 10 2009, 03:44 PM   #1268
Cyke101
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

eriklatranyi wrote: View Post
It is fate that this crew end up together....even when all events are pulling them apart.
Heck, if you want to count the Mirror Universe, that means we already have three examples of the crew destined to serve together.
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Old May 10 2009, 03:54 PM   #1269
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

as long as some of the priesthood either left the planet or were already off the planet most of the traditions will be preserved.

Mr. Chubbykins wrote: View Post
I
Does anyone else think Parallel Universe would have been a better idea? Would that teeny, tiny script change have left a better taste in your mouth?

from what orci has said that is how he views it no matter if the term alternate has been used.

the whole intent was that what happened before still happened.

now they have this different branch off of the stream of the time line.

nothing has been wiped out.

as people have said trek for a long time had alternate/parallel universes going at the same time.

heck if moonves who hates trek were ever to leave as head of the tv side of things you still might get a series set in the the classic verse.

what is interesting is most non fans or fans not buried in trek seem to grasp this.
that the star trek they have seen still exists.
well as much as a work of fiction can exist.
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Old May 10 2009, 03:56 PM   #1270
Mr. Chubbykins
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

eriklatranyi wrote: View Post
The idea that going back in time "fixes" the timeline is your first mistake, I believe.

There are those who believe that once an event is encountered with multiple potential outcomes that alternative timelines automatically exist for each possible outcome. Viewers are only watching a single timeline (and in the case of a "fix") a timeline that diverted to an alternative outcome.

This would mean there are trillions and trillions of timelines out there as almost every event has another potential outcome.
I'm not talking about real-world physics theories. Start that and we'll end up asking why we can hear the space battles . I'm talking about how Trek has always treated timetravel. The logic of "Yesterday's Enterprise" may make theoretical physicists twitch, but that treatment has been very consistent across all versions of Trek.

And according to Trek rules, the future we have watched has been wiped. Call me a crazed fanatic if you like, but that makes me sad.
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Old May 10 2009, 04:00 PM   #1271
Cyke101
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Mr. Chubbykins wrote: View Post
eriklatranyi wrote: View Post
The idea that going back in time "fixes" the timeline is your first mistake, I believe.

There are those who believe that once an event is encountered with multiple potential outcomes that alternative timelines automatically exist for each possible outcome. Viewers are only watching a single timeline (and in the case of a "fix") a timeline that diverted to an alternative outcome.

This would mean there are trillions and trillions of timelines out there as almost every event has another potential outcome.
I'm not talking about real-world physics theories. Start that and we'll end up asking why we can hear the space battles . I'm talking about how Trek has always treated timetravel. The logic of "Yesterday's Enterprise" may make theoretical physicists twitch, but that treatment has been very consistent across all versions of Trek.

And according to Trek rules, the future we have watched has been wiped. Call me a crazed fanatic if you like, but that makes me sad.
No it doesn't. It continues on in books and video games and other ways, maybe a TV show down the line or so. The writers outright referenced "Parallels" on TrekWeb as an example of how split timelines can co-exist. The Mirror Universe continued to thrive across two additional spinoffs after Kirk and Co. left it. Nothing's been wiped out.
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Old May 10 2009, 04:04 PM   #1272
Agent Richard07
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The fact-of-the-matter is, more deep moviies like, say, The Wrath of Khan just wouldn't work today.
The Dark Knight showed that it could be done.
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Old May 10 2009, 04:19 PM   #1273
eriklatranyi
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

[QUOTE=Mr. Chubbykins;2930982And according to Trek rules, the future we have watched has been wiped. Call me a crazed fanatic if you like, but that makes me sad.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. It was only wiped in this timeline. The original timeline (without Romulus) carries on because nothing was done to change its creation.

This "rebooted" timeline was created by the existence of Nero and his destruction of the Kelvin. Nothing was done to change its creation.

Therefore, we have two timelines as represented by Spock and Spock Prime.
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Old May 10 2009, 04:27 PM   #1274
SalvorHardin
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The fact-of-the-matter is, more deep moviies like, say, The Wrath of Khan just wouldn't work today.
The Dark Knight showed that it could be done.
The Dark Knight was sequel to a movie that had already done the job of resurrecting the Batman franchise.
Which is Star Trek's main goal here.

Maybe Star Trek's sequel will play the DK role now that (as things so far indicate) Trek seems to be recovering from past failures.
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Old May 10 2009, 04:29 PM   #1275
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Excellent

Two nit-picks:

1. I hated the way they messed with the ranking system (allowing Kirk to go from cadet to captain being the prime example).

2. How did Nero know that he killed Kirk's father? That guy made very little sense. He seemed to just fill the plot when needed (including doing nothing for 25 years...).
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