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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 704 63.03%
Above Average 211 18.89%
Average 83 7.43%
Below Average 43 3.85%
Poor 76 6.80%
Voters: 1117. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 9 2009, 08:29 PM   #1006
Trekker4747
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Plecostomus wrote: View Post
As for "where is the warp core" I've said it before I'll say it again: Multiple redundancy for maximum safety, no warp-core no warp drive you have to walk home.
That's why your car has two engines in it, right?

You'd have a point if your car were capable of holding 400 people, and could sidestep the laws of physics.

J.

The thing is, the warp core is supposed to be a huge, nearly flawless and complicated piece of equipment. It should be central to the engineering section not have several of them scattered throughout the engineering brewery room.

Look at the engine room in TMP. You get a sense of power and magic from that ship's warp core. Up the production values to make better use of space/materials and you'd have one heck of a room. No brewery reuired.

If a ship has one warpcore and it's disabled, well, that's what distress calls and rescue ships are for.
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Old May 9 2009, 08:48 PM   #1007
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Plecostomus wrote: View Post
As for "where is the warp core" I've said it before I'll say it again: Multiple redundancy for maximum safety, no warp-core no warp drive you have to walk home.
That's why your car has two engines in it, right?

yeah well, i'm not exactly driving my car to Ceti Alpha V either
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Old May 9 2009, 08:52 PM   #1008
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

El Chupacabra wrote: View Post
Hmmm, where do I start?
I left the cinema yesterday afternoon not knowing whether or not I liked or truly despised this movie. However, my main feeling as I walked out was that it simply didn’t feel like Star Trek, and that worried my greatly. I’ve been a fan for over 30 years, since early childhood, and to not have the feeling for the first time ever was very disappointing. However, I’ll deal with that at the end of my review.
I think the best way to summarise my feelings about the picture would be to list the good and the bad:-
THE GOOD
- The special effects were stunning, particularly the opening battle. There can be no question about that.

- I warmed quite quickly to the exterior of the new Enterprise – at least when shown at a distance anyhow.

- I liked some little touches in the movie, such as how the Kelvin’s communicators looked like the old TOS ones, Scotty’s tribble (complete with the correct trilling), Kirk’s apple and Majel’s voice on the ship computer.

- As a general action movie there was enough in it to keep the pace chugging along throughout without moments of boredom.

- The main Starfleet uniforms were great. AT a distance they looking just like TOS uniforms. I also got a kick out of the similarities between Pike’s admiral’s uniform and Kirk’s TMP version.

- I liked the Nero character, even if he got little to do. I would have liked to see more of him and learn more.

- I liked the fact that Nero’s ship interior was relatively consistent with the look of the Scimitar from Nemesis. It made me believe that the ship originated from the same sort of grudgey, lower class mining background that Shinzon did, thus I could accept that Nero was from the post-Nemesis era.

- Nimoy!! What can you say. I was overjoyed to see him on screen again. Some people posting reviews have suggested that he was out of character in his scenes. I disagree. In fact I felt that this was the closest we had seen to the Spock I remember since Star Trek V. Nimoy seemed to go through a phase of having Spock be extremely grumpy in TUC and Unification and it was refreshing to see a return to the character I properly remember from the golden days of Trek. Hats off to Leonard to still pull it off. He easily acts Quinto off the screen, but then I feel a bit sorry for Quinto having to play alongside the original, unlike his cast mates, especially Leonard as of all the characters I’d say that Spock is probably the one most unique to the original actor. Nimoy just has something about him, and almost alien quality that inhabits the character that, quite simply, only he can do.

- A great score. Top notch, although I would have like to hear the fanfare earlier on, but I understand why it came at the end.

- Khan style eels! Great stuff.

- Not exactly part of “the good” per se, but a lot of people moaned about Spock & Uhura’s lovebird act. Have to say I had no problem with it keeping in mind that these are alternate versions of the characters. In fact that only thing I was curious about was how it came to be as otherwise there wasn’t much point it in being present.
THE BAD
- Recasting. Now, I promised myself well in advance that I had gotten past the recasting of iconic roles, helped in part by Nimoy’s endorsement and, more importantly, the alternate universe which allowed me to treat them as different characters. But despite the throw away line about alternate realities it was clear to me that the movie was trying to remind me on a regular basis that I was supposed to be watching Kirk Spock and McCoy and I was supposed to accept the youngsters, many of whom are younger than me (not that I should let that prejudice me), were the same iconic characters that I had grown up with over 30 years. For me, I just couldn’t do it. Maybe I am like Kirk in TUC, I’m struggling to get past my prejudices and move on, but for me the original characters are more than a few episodes and movies, they have been friends to go to when times were bad. Friends who allowed me some escapism. Friends who taught me about morality and difficult questions in life. The people that brought those characters to like are those characters. A character is more than what is written on a script page, it is also part of the living breathing person that plays him or her. For instance, Karl Urban did indeed give one of the best performances in the movie. But I just couldn’t believe it was McCoy, all I could believe was that it was a young Starfleet officer doing an impression of McCoy.The same for the others, all good actors, especially the wonderful Simon Pegg, but I just couldn’t help wanting to see my beloved personalities of old. I think it will take me a long time to get beyond that, if I ever do.

- The set designs. The Kelvin was ok and I could believe it was pre-TOS. However, I despised other sets, most significantly the Enterprise interiors. Abrams has spoken about his desire to do what Dick Donner did on Superman: The Movie, have the believability factor to what was on screen. Versimilitude Donner called it. Well here Abrams makes a fatal mistake. We aren’t just talking about a superhero in a costume, with everything else looking like 20th Century Earth, we are talking about how society will look over 200 years from now. In that respect I cannot accept that the Enterprise needs manual handles to go to warp and an absurd looking engine room that looks like the lower decks of a World War II submarine. Aside from a few trendy touchscreens thrown in, everything else on the Enterprise looked years behind the TOS version, and even looked less advanced than the NX-01, which was are to believe still existed as we know it in this reality. Not convinced in the slightest and Abrams better think carefully about this one for the sequel. It’s absurd that will such a budget that couldn’t create something truly futuristic looking, especially since they had gone to all that trouble of making the exterior of the ship more advanced than its sixties counterpart.

- Plot explanations. I thanked god I had read Countdown because without that the plot of the movie seemed very silly. A Romulan comes after Spock because his homeworld was blown up and he somehow blames Spock for not sorting it out in time, all of which we find out in a couple minutes. Great. That’s it? So basically we are to empathise with Nero and understand his plight? Do me a favour. I couldn’t feel for him after such a small and thrown away explanation and saw the character as nothing more than Bana playing a crazy. I would have loved to have seen more. With that the soul was totally ripped out of the movie for me and Nero was just another bad guy of the week. Ironically the one thing I didn’t have much of a problem with was Nimoy being on Delta Vega at the right moment. With the other plot holes, this coincidence didn’t really matter to me.

- Lens flares and shakey cam. I had read complaints about this but went into the movie open minded. I had no problem with it during the Kelvin scenes, but by the time the movie was half way through it began to annoy me. I’m a greater hater of shakey cam out of the two, and I am terribly frustrated that Hollywood directors think that the audience want to see these tired camera tricks all the time. This moviegoer doesn’t and I’m tired of seeing this in every action film I see these days. One of the redeeming features of Indy 4 was that Spielberg shot the movie old style, without shakey cam, and so despite its flaws I find Crystal Skull a lot easier to watch than movies like Iron Man. I like to see what is happening, not get a headache. But then I guess Abrams was just trying to be one of the cool kids.

- Kids in charge of the Enterprise. Talked about many times so I won’t go into detail, but from cadet to Captain? And for that matter the whole crew (sans Spock & Scotty) from cadets to senior officers? Utterly, utterly stupid.

- Ben Cross as Sarek. Bloody awful. I wish Mark Lenard was still around.

- Product placement. No, no, no, no. No room for that in Star Trek JJ. What a cheap shot.

CONCLUSION

Despite the recasting and the items under my “bad” list, none of what I mentioned above was enough to make me hate the movie. I could stomach them and suspend disbelief to allow me to watch the movie as “just another movie” and take enjoyment out of it and be entertained. In that respect is was a rip-roaring space action adventure and I would recommend it to any non-fan who likes action films. I can understand why it has gotten rave reviews from non-fans and newer fans alike. It will generate a good return, new fans and a sequel. Paramount have gotten what they wanted.

However, here lies the real problem I have with the movie, which is a serious complaint directed at the new “supreme court”. Abrams and his cohorts, including Nimoy himself, tell us Star Trek is about the characters. A lot of fans have bought into this when seeing the new movie and think that if there is a good arc for Kirk & Spock then that’s all that’s need. I respectfully disagree with this on every level. Star Trek was never about the characters, it was about the human experience, as told through the characters. This is the fundamental mistake with movie. It’s something that people like Ron Moore and, dare I say it, Berman understood about what Roddenberry was trying to do, but Abrams seems clueless in this regard. There was no exploration of humanity in this movie and no hint of a morality play. For this fan, that’s just not good enough. I was never a fan of Star Trek because I liked to see ship battles or fancy devices. It was about, for me, the social issues it made me think about. It was the thing about Star Trek that set it apart from things like Star Wars. It had greater depth, more intelligence and more morality than the other things out there. Majel is alleged to have said that Gene would have approved of the new movie, while I hope that he would have I feel that this is doubtful. If you go way back to “The Cage” it is clear what Gene wanted from the show. He wanted to make the audience think. Abrams Trek does not do that. For that reason I felt incredibly let down when I left the cinema. It felt like my intelligent Star Trek had died years earlier and had been replaced by yet another big budget Hollywood action movie for the crowds of lower intelligence out there that has simply had the Star Trek name slapped on it. Well, that’s what sells these days so I understand it. But I am just deeply upset that the market has turned this way and ripped the heart, or more importantly, the brain, out of my beloved Star Trek.

You see without the intelligence Star Trek is just like everything else....and nothing else has lasted this long as a result. I don’t see why people can’t see that. This movie will generate a couple sequels of big action. Paramount will make short term money on its reboot. But it will die out much sooner than the original did, because this nuTrek is far more a product of its time than TOS ever was and simply doesn’t have elements to withstand changes attitudes over the years.

Abrams has a chance to recapture this old fan with the inevitable sequel. He just needs to explore the human experience again – and there is no reason why this cannot go hand in hand with a big budget action film. I implore him to do it as then he really will have done justice to the Roddenberry legacy.

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Old May 9 2009, 08:53 PM   #1009
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

After finally actually seeing the film for myself - I feel about the same about it as I felt before I saw it:

I wish some changes (in cannon, design, the time-line, style, *everything*) hadn't gone *quite* so far/been so drastic - while I think other changes were needed improvements.

I hope future Trek movies keep the sense of BIG EXCITMENT AND ADVENTURE this film has - but will, in addition, have a bit more...gravitas and intelligent writing and "depth"...as well - which I felt this was lacking.

But if the same writers of "Star Trek" write part 2 I will be happy - but I'd like them to add an additional...voice...who can add that depth and intellectuialism...

The *only* other thing I felt lacking was the sense the TMP creators had to make the details of the ships and tech (in that film) look scientificly & engineeringly(???) realistic...I would like to see that care and thoughtfulness for realism and detail and what things actually *do* - not just "does it look cool!?" - return.

Great "popcorn flick" - but needs just a *wee* *bit* more "re-watchability"...

But all-in-all - I think it's a good restart of Trek for my *children's* generation - that their father (that being me) can also enjoy watching with them.
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Old May 9 2009, 09:29 PM   #1010
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Well, I just saw it. It was a very good action film, I liked it. It had some pretty questionable science. Like the ice planet that was apparently orbiting Vulcan...? Shouldn't it have been a dessert planet too? There were lots of things like that that were clearly part of the reboot not explained by the time changes. So I think this movie is certainly in a different universe and started in a different universe before Nero showed up. Only Nero and old Spock are part of the old cannon. But that's fine by me.

My non trekkie brother really liked it. The audience reaction was very good. Lots of laughs, Nimoy got some applause when he showed up, and there was some applause for one of the Enterprise hero shots and at the end. I did hear someone say the skydiving part looked fun. So it is a crowd pleaser.

In conclusion, it was well worth the 14 dollars I spent on the two tickets in and I give it an Above Average rating 4/5. The plot, if there was one, was pretty confusing and filled to the brim with unlikely coincidences, but there were plenty of great scenes.
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Old May 9 2009, 09:41 PM   #1011
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I took my non-trekkie niece this afternoon, she only talked once during the entire film, which was to point out she knew Kirk was going to miss the platform jump since he likes hanging off the edge of things.
So either she was mesmerised by it, or so bored her brain melted, bur she said she liked it a lot.
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Old May 9 2009, 09:53 PM   #1012
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I haven't read all 51 pages of this thread, but I saw the movie last night and I have some thoughts to post.

For the most part I thought it was excellent, and I voted that way in the poll. It isn't my favorite of the Star Trek movies, but it's definitely near the top.

If I have a serious complaint about the film, it's that the action scenes were near impossible to watch for me. During many of them, particularly the attack on the Kelvin and Sulu and Kirk's stand aboard the space-drill, I just gave up trying to follow what was actually happening. I imagine it will play a little better on video, and at least it wasn't at Michael Bay levels of incomprehensibility.

The cast was mostly great. Chris Pine and Zachary Quinto were marvelous, and I was sad that Simon Pegg got as little screentime as he did. I liked John Cho and Karl Urban too. The new Uhura didn't leave much of an impression on me (neither did her odd romance with Spock), and Chekov struck me as the weakest of the new bunch.

Eric Bana as Nero, however, did little for me. The Trek movie series has rarely had truly memorable villains, and it hasn't found one here either. I particularly scoff at the notion of this guy and his entire crew apparently spending 25 years doing absolutely nothing but sitting around and waiting for Spock to show up. Maybe it's the fact that I, myself, am only 22 years old, but I find that a little hard to swallow. I mean, revenge is sweet and all, but after the first solid decade of puttzing around the bridge of his mining ship, I'd expect there to be some serious reconsidering going on.

I was also a little unclear on how or why the rest of Starfleet is apparently unwilling or unable to take on Nero. There was, I believe, a single line explaining where the real fleet was, but I recall it not making a lot of sense to me at the time, and I can't remember it now. Oh well. Not a big deal, it's always been the case that the Enterprise is the only ship around whenever something big goes down, it's only slightly sillier in this case since the entire crew was so fresh out of the academy.

I didn't have a problem with the ridiculous use of the transporters, mostly because it's always been a silly concept. I did wonder when Chekov suddenly became an expert on beaming though, and why having Sulu and Kirk crash into the transporter pad would be any less damaging to them than crashing into the ground would be, but hey, suspension of disbelief and all that.

I liked that there was such a focus on humor. I could usually count on decent comedic relief with the TOS crew, and I was glad to see it back (the humor of the TNG cast and crew will NOT be missed by me). Some of the jokes fell flat. They went overboard with Kirk's side-effects to McCoy's injections. One or two were funny, but by the time his hands tripled in size and his tongue went numb, I was ready to move on. Simon Pegg as Scotty was naturally very funny, but I didn't get the running joke of him yelling at some strange little alien. What the hell was that about? My favorite joke was one of the simplest. Chris Pine's delivery of the simple line "Stop that!" after McCoy injects him one too many times had me laughing hard.

I could go on for quite a while about this movie. It was engaging and always entertaining. It could have benefitted from a better villain more than anything else, and I won't hold Nero against this movie. It's the first Star Trek anything I've been excited about since the end of DS9 close to 10 years ago. Since then I've been of the opinion that Star Trek should just be retired, so crappy new material doesn't continue to tarnish the old. But if we can get more like this movie, I'll gladly reverse that stance. I hope we see several more in the coming years.

*** 1/2 out of ****
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Old May 9 2009, 09:55 PM   #1013
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

^ I don't think Chekov's an expert on beaming, I think he's just very, very good with numbers and calculations such as mass, gravity, inertia, etc. He is a navigator after all.

J.
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Old May 9 2009, 10:06 PM   #1014
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Goji wrote: View Post
I was also a little unclear on how or why the rest of Starfleet is apparently unwilling or unable to take on Nero. There was, I believe, a single line explaining where the real fleet was, but I recall it not making a lot of sense to me at the time, and I can't remember it now.
Only the ships in space dock were close enough. I took this to be an intentional homage to the other movies where the Enterprise is the only ship in the quadrant.
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Old May 9 2009, 10:35 PM   #1015
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

If I have a serious complaint about the film, it's that the action scenes were near impossible to watch for me. During many of them, particularly the attack on the Kelvin and Sulu and Kirk's stand aboard the space-drill, I just gave up trying to follow what was actually happening. I imagine it will play a little better on video, and at least it wasn't at Michael Bay levels of incomprehensibility.
Yeah, this was one of my few problems with the films. Abrams decided to take a page out of Batman Begins and Quantum of Suckatude by editing the actions scenes so quickly you couldn't pay attention to them. I want to actually see the fight. All the quick cuts were ridiculous. I'd like to tell him and other filmmakers that not being able to follow the action scenes is NOT good filmmaking.
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Old May 9 2009, 10:39 PM   #1016
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

J. Allen wrote: View Post
^ I don't think Chekov's an expert on beaming, I think he's just very, very good with numbers and calculations such as mass, gravity, inertia, etc. He is a navigator after all.

J.
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Old May 9 2009, 10:44 PM   #1017
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Miri9 wrote: View Post
The main reason to see this movie for real TOS trekkers is the characters - and they are all back! Pine and Quinto are awesome as Kirk and Pike, something that truly surprised me. Urban as Bones was a bit imitative, as was the Chekov character. The one character I was dissapointed with was Uruha. Nichols always played her with an elegance and grace that was missing from this incarnation. The Scotty character was not well written into the script, but the characterization was pretty good.

I really look at this movie as setting up the characters in a new light and nothing more, and I do look foward to more movies with this crew.

The special effects were dizzying but not that stunning as they were all so close range and were there as eye candy for the trekkers to be. I liked the bridge design and most of the ship except engineering - that did not work for me at all. It looked like an old factory they found somewhere and filmed.

The costumes were excellent - captured elements of the original, and of all subsequent films.

My WTF'S:?? (Some spoilers...)
1. Using parachutes to get the drill platform - what, no jet packs??
2. Spock leaving the Enterprise to rescue the council and his parents...no way would Spock have left his duty on the ship.
3. Pike in the wheelchair at the end...no medical breakthrough for this??
4. Spock tossing Kirk on the ice planet - why not just put him in the brig?
5. I hope they meant "Spock Prime" to look and sound that old...or Nimoy is really fading.

It was a good, but exhausting, two hours.
CONTAINS MORE SPOILERS -

Miri,

I agree with you in regards to Pine and Quino. (I think Quinto is a rather hot Spock too!). I can see that Quinto worked very had at making it look natural, so much so that it didn't look like work. (the Walk!)

Although I love him, I too think Urban was trying a bit too hard as Bones (his American is always a bit stretched), but I think Pegg was very funny, and not completely imitative (good brit-scot). I still think he would have drowned, but...

Another thing about Urban, he so excels as a bad-guy, he might have been a good Nero . I liked Bana, but I don't think he was given quite enough to do. And why an American accent?

But I thought Yelchin's natural "family" accent was perfect, especially when he tries to "clean up" his english so that the Computer can understand him better. (classic Chekov W's for V's, so charming) I thought he might have been too young, but he IS supposed to be the youngest on the ship, so it works. Quite a character leap for him, acting-wise, and I think he pulled it off (Lets see how he does in Terminator Salvation - )

You could see that Cho was having so much fun. Love the look on his face in the "retry" for Warp Speed. (How about that extension blade!?!)

Saldana was a nice Uhura, but the mystery is missing - that quiet-cool that was/is Nichelle is hard to replicate.
Re: "Spock leaving the Enterprise to rescue the council and his parents...no way would Spock have left his duty on the ship."
I thought this VERY thing!
Re: "Pike in the wheelchair at the end...no medical breakthrough for this??"
Well, it was the same in the pilot/The Menagerie - and there Pike was completely disabled and only able to communicate positive/negative through his chair/machine.

An odd thought: Aren't Orion girls supposed to be much more on the animal side? I don't think Kirk would have made it out of there without giving her a proper...shag.

On the movie as a whole, I just had fun with it. And I'm still thinking about it today. Good sign that it has the ability to stay with you.

~ Monique
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Old May 9 2009, 10:47 PM   #1018
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

DarthPipes wrote: View Post
If I have a serious complaint about the film, it's that the action scenes were near impossible to watch for me. During many of them, particularly the attack on the Kelvin and Sulu and Kirk's stand aboard the space-drill, I just gave up trying to follow what was actually happening. I imagine it will play a little better on video, and at least it wasn't at Michael Bay levels of incomprehensibility.
Yeah, this was one of my few problems with the films. Abrams decided to take a page out of Batman Begins and Quantum of Suckatude by editing the actions scenes so quickly you couldn't pay attention to them. I want to actually see the fight. All the quick cuts were ridiculous. I'd like to tell him and other filmmakers that not being able to follow the action scenes is NOT good filmmaking.
This kind of editing does seem to be annoyingly common. And most of the time, its not that they don't have the coverage or footage shot, its that they simply think it makes things go faster.
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Old May 9 2009, 10:56 PM   #1019
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I just got back from it. To call it "excellent" would be a mild understatement. I'm still in awe.
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Old May 9 2009, 11:01 PM   #1020
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Sky wrote: View Post
Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
Wow, that was the best Star Wars movie since The Empire Strikes Back.
Sadly yes.

Now after seeing the film twice and thinking things over I'd like to change my vote from Above average to Below average. My first opinion was clouded by my happiness about seeing "the old gang" once more. I SO wanted to like this film and was expecting SO much from it.

I have no problem with the idea of a reboot. I have a problem with godawfully bad storytelling and mindless action for the sake of action.
Eh, I had no expectations of the film and still found it rather disappointing, though, as I said, I can see where this is enough of a start to possibly generate something interesting down the line - but I'm not holding my breath.

The big problem ultimately for me is Kirk. They get a perfectly fine, energetic, handsome young actor to play him and then forget to give him any sort of story. Spock's story was fair, serviceable if not inspired, but what was Kirk's arc? What did he learn? Why should we believe he's an extraordinary leader? The story assumes these things but never shows them to the audience. In fact, Kirk was largely written for laughs, and yet the film was still constructed as his rise to leadership. This disjunction leaves a huge hole in the tale. When Kirk receives his command at the end - who cares? We didn't see him earn it. We didn't see what was distinctive about this character. We didn't see his ability to take risks, not just gamble recklessly, but take huge risks based on the possiblity of astonishing payoffs. We didn't see his idealism - his deep and unshakeable belief that, while beings are flawed, they can achieve extraordinary things when it is demanded of them; nor did we see his values - his belief in exploration, honor, mercy and compassion - that was turned into a joke. It was funny, but it was a low point for the much vaunted core of this movie - the Kirk/ Spock partnership, which is above all based on these shared values that make it possible to overcome their deep differences.

If they don't get Kirk right in future projects - he is not Han Solo, and he is not simply a swashbuckler - then Trek will continue as it has for the last 15 years. Cheesy space opera with silly characters who are constantly said to be heroic, but who never act like heroes. This movie walked the line of making the characters cartoonish (though at least it acheived some real humor, something that has not ever been Trek's strong suit), I hope they can keep some humor but find some gravitas somewhere.
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