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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 706 62.70%
Above Average 213 18.92%
Average 84 7.46%
Below Average 46 4.09%
Poor 77 6.84%
Voters: 1126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 7 2009, 07:11 PM   #256
FlyingLemons
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

The whole alternate timeline thing is the explanation preferred by modern scientists for time travel (well, to discuss it in full would go wildly off topic) but basically it's thought the universe avoids paradoxes by splitting off timelines. The idea is if you go and say, assassinate your grandfather in the past, it becomes its own separate reality where things can happen differently so no blowback affects the timeline you started from.

Hence Nero's shenanigans during the film make it an alternate reality, and thus the canon of the previous universe is preserved, no destruction occuring.
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Old May 7 2009, 07:14 PM   #257
Wesser
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

1
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Old May 7 2009, 07:16 PM   #258
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

The Habs Fan wrote: View Post
I agree with you SalvorHardin. The original timeline is not destroyed. There are just 2 timelines now.
Along the lines of the BTTF trilogy for example, once you change the past it's altered. Simple as. You can go back and try and fix it, but in some shape or other its changed. The original timeline of BTTF 1 of Lorriane & George having crap lives and crummy jobs is erased after Marty changes things, it's not still there running along side it.

But I can see what you're saying, and even if you do go with that I don't get how that explains the MASSIVE changed we see in such a short space of time for everything to be so different.
But my main gripe with that aspect of the film is "why?" Just make it a remake/reboot from the start. Then you wouldn't have this nonsensical mess of a plot and you could just do a cool story about Kirk, Spock and co's maiden voyage.

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Old May 7 2009, 07:16 PM   #259
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Well, the "old timeline" is gone in the sense that we won't be seeing Trek TV shows and movies set there any more. Who knows, if Paramount feels this version is successful enough to commit to it the folks in charge of licensing may insist on adherence to at least the new visual iconography on TOS-era games, books and so on...
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Old May 7 2009, 07:16 PM   #260
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
All I'm doing is answering questions. I suggest the same officiating eyes be directed at the other side.
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This reminds me of that Ned Flanders quote: "Oh. It's Lisa Simpson. Springfield's answer to the question NO ONE EVER ASKED!"
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Old May 7 2009, 07:16 PM   #261
The Habs Fan
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

FlyingLemons wrote: View Post
The whole alternate timeline thing is the explanation preferred by modern scientists for time travel (well, to discuss it in full would go wildly off topic) but basically it's thought the universe avoids paradoxes by splitting off timelines. The idea is if you go and say, assassinate your grandfather in the past, it becomes its own separate reality where things can happen differently so no blowback affects the timeline you started from.

Hence Nero's shenanigans during the film make it an alternate reality, and thus the canon of the previous universe is preserved, no destruction occuring.
Exactly. And although I don't think this is going to happen for a very long time if at all, they could still set future movies and TV series in the original Roddenberry/Berman timeline.
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Old May 7 2009, 07:17 PM   #262
EJA
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
EJA wrote: View Post
Any indication of how far along Winona Kirk is in the pregnancy at the time of Nero's attack? If she was in the latter stages, and James was born in Iowa in the pre-Nero timeline, then would that imply that the Kelvin was due to return to Earth shortly at this time, to give Winona the opportunity to have her baby on Earth?
I got the impression that she was going to give birth to baby Jim any time now, even if the attack hadn't happened.
Hence my assumption that at the time of the attack, the Kelvin was due to return home. But if Winona had actually gone into labour prior to the attack....uh oh How can Kirk ever have said he was born in Iowa if he was always destined to be born on the Kelvin? BLOOPER ALERT!!
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Old May 7 2009, 07:18 PM   #263
section9
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

thumbtack wrote: View Post
You know, the original universe was not destroyed. It's out there somewhere, with our fond memories. Well, mostly fond. I am, however, very happy that we are not going back to that universe.
Oh, indeed, so am I. If it were up to some of the fans on this forum, we would go back to this....



Spare me unbounded nostalgia. I'll take change that adjusts with the moviegoing public, despite the apparent flaws in the writing. I'll be going to the movie tonight. Back with a grade when I see it.
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Old May 7 2009, 07:21 PM   #264
The Habs Fan
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Ethros wrote: View Post
The Habs Fan wrote: View Post
I agree with you SalvorHardin. The original timeline is not destroyed. There are just 2 timelines now.
Along the lines of the BTTF trilogy for example, once you change the past it's altered. Simple as. You can go back and try and fix it, but in some shape or other its changed. The original timeline of BTTF 1 of Lorriane & George having crap lives and crummy jobs is erased after Marty changes things, it's not still there running along side it.

But I can see what you're saying, and even if you do go with that I don't get how that explains the MASSIVE changed we see in such a short space of time for everything to be so different.
But my main gripe with that aspect of the film is "why?" Just make it a remake/reboot from the start. Then you wouldn't have this nonsensical mess of a plot and you could just do a cool story about Kirk, Spock and co's maiden voyage.

This is the problem: BTTF. The writers of Star Trek chose the more scientific approach to time travel which involves quantum mechanics and alternate timelines, not slowly fading away from pictures.
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Old May 7 2009, 07:24 PM   #265
Wesser
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
The only time an upcoming Star Trek project ever gave me a chill of anticipation up my spine was when TNG was announced, because it meant that, at long last, with Star Trek returning to television, we'd finally won.

Another movie coming out is just fighting the same old battle again for territory we already won twenty years ago. I don't care how spectacular it is, what's the point?
Well, I point I can offer is that TNG was never TOS. I was as jacked as any Trek fan when "we finally won" and TNG made it to the air. But it wasn't long, before I was bored with it.
This show was/is about the characters, as far as I'm concerned. The big 3 of TOS hasn't been "copied" or improved upon no matter how many Picards and Rikers you create. And don't even get me going on the Sisco's, Janeways and Archers of the world.
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Old May 7 2009, 07:26 PM   #266
EJA
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

So is Winona already in child labour when the Narada attacks the Kelvin?
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Old May 7 2009, 07:28 PM   #267
FlyingLemons
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

The Habs Fan wrote: View Post
FlyingLemons wrote: View Post
The whole alternate timeline thing is the explanation preferred by modern scientists for time travel (well, to discuss it in full would go wildly off topic) but basically it's thought the universe avoids paradoxes by splitting off timelines. The idea is if you go and say, assassinate your grandfather in the past, it becomes its own separate reality where things can happen differently so no blowback affects the timeline you started from.

Hence Nero's shenanigans during the film make it an alternate reality, and thus the canon of the previous universe is preserved, no destruction occuring.
Exactly. And although I don't think this is going to happen for a very long time if at all, they could still set future movies and TV series in the original Roddenberry/Berman timeline.
Well, Glen Larson is in talks to create a BSG movie based on the original series rather than the superior reimagining, and they were going to do a Stargate sequel with Roland Emmerich which ignored the SG1 continuity, so they could theoretically do a series which carried on in the timeline that this movie branched off from. It might suit Paramount and CBS from a royalties sense to do this.

That said, I'm pretty much past caring...

EJA wrote: View Post
So is Winona already in child labour when the Narada attacks the Kelvin?
With all the stuff going on around her it appears she's uninjured apart from giving birth, so I would say yes. There's not much indication she was forced into premature labour, so you could go with that interpretation.
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Old May 7 2009, 07:30 PM   #268
The Habs Fan
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

FlyingLemons wrote: View Post
The Habs Fan wrote: View Post
FlyingLemons wrote: View Post
The whole alternate timeline thing is the explanation preferred by modern scientists for time travel (well, to discuss it in full would go wildly off topic) but basically it's thought the universe avoids paradoxes by splitting off timelines. The idea is if you go and say, assassinate your grandfather in the past, it becomes its own separate reality where things can happen differently so no blowback affects the timeline you started from.

Hence Nero's shenanigans during the film make it an alternate reality, and thus the canon of the previous universe is preserved, no destruction occuring.
Exactly. And although I don't think this is going to happen for a very long time if at all, they could still set future movies and TV series in the original Roddenberry/Berman timeline.
Well, Glen Larson is in talks to create a BSG movie based on the original series rather than the superior reimagining, and they were going to do a Stargate sequel with Roland Emmerich which ignored the SG1 continuity, so they could theoretically do a series which carried on in the timeline that this movie branched off from. It might suit Paramount and CBS from a royalties sense to do this.

That said, I'm pretty much past caring...
And the funny thing is, both BSG and Stargate were rebooted or retconned, but the writers of Star Trek XI went out of their way to make this an alternative timeline where the original still exists.
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Old May 7 2009, 07:30 PM   #269
Wesser
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
What I'd like to see is some veteran Trek writers taking advantage of all this hype and putting together a pitch for a new series that stays within the established continuity, maybe even a Captain April series (hey, I'm biased; sue me). After all, there's a five year period that's begging to be told, and if it's still going strong, and Ray Liotta is up for it, sign him up as Pike and keep rolling for a while (I don't know if it'd be workable to do a retelling of "The Cage" or just skip around it, from the fight on Rigel VII to their finally getting to the Vega colony, and maybe just deal with the fallout from Talos and Starfleet's enacting of General Order VII).
I 2nd this. Lets have some fun in the TOS era. They've skirted it for 15 years and 4 series.
Hell, pick one of the other 11 constitution class ships of that era and set it during THEIR 5 year mission. Matt Decker was presented as a great StarShip Capt. until the DD machine. Or Ron Tracy. Oh wait. The young hero who falls into revenge and darkness has bee done already too.
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Old May 7 2009, 07:35 PM   #270
EJA
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Doesn't The Deadly Years specifically state James Kirk to have been born in Iowa? What are we supposed to do now, mentally dub that line over with "USS Kelvin, sector wherever-the-heck-it's-supposed-to-be"?

And how the heck can there be two planets called Delta Vega?!
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