RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 144,923
Posts: 5,699,899
Members: 25,693
Currently online: 524
Newest member: dfedolafrje

TrekToday headlines

Star Trek: The Next Generation Commemorative Coins
By: T'Bonz on May 5

Star Trek IV: What Might Have Been
By: T'Bonz on May 5

Russ Explains Star Wars Day
By: T'Bonz on May 4

New Seekers Book Covers Debut
By: T'Bonz on May 4

Whitney Passes
By: T'Bonz on May 4

Retro Review: Phage
By: Michelle on May 2

The Next Generation Shower Curtain
By: T'Bonz on May 1

Burton Part of Roots Reboot
By: T'Bonz on May 1

May-June 2015 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Apr 30

Ross To Attend Trek Convention
By: T'Bonz on Apr 29


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 707 62.73%
Above Average 213 18.90%
Average 84 7.45%
Below Average 46 4.08%
Poor 77 6.83%
Voters: 1127. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 29 2009, 07:35 PM   #2446
Anticitizen
Fleet Captain
 
Anticitizen's Avatar
 
Location: Black Mesa Research Facility
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I keep a can of vulture repellent on my Bat-Belt.
Anticitizen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29 2009, 09:18 PM   #2447
3D Master
Rear Admiral
 
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

trevanian wrote: View Post
Anticitizen wrote: View Post
Regarding the time travel/alternate timeline:

Absolutely nothing in the movie suggests that its events are in an 'alternate' timeline that's co-existing alongside the 'prime' timeline. And absolutely nothing suggests that it's the same timeline that's been altered. We're not given indications either way, Uhura's wild guess notwithstanding.

Therefore, we must turn to other Trek for our interpretation of the events - previous time travel stories. Traditionally, in Trek, if you go back in time and change something, you alter the existing timeline you came from - not branch off into another timeline.

See 'Return to Yesterday', 'Yesterday's Enterprise,' 'City on the Edge of Forever', 'First Contact, whatever episode in which Data's head - from the past - is found (which means they went back in time to their OWN timeline)... etc etc etc.

Therefore I tend to lean toward the interpretation that the original timeline has been destroyed and does not exist.

It means, of course, that Spock Prime should be doing his damndest to fix the timeline, as he's been known to do in the past when time travel screws it up, but I'm sure that won't happen.
Wow, you're my hero. How'd you get this posted without a horde of vultures coming into the thread and plucking your eyeballs out?

Your last paragraph makes me think that what they have in this abrams movie might LOOK like primeSpock, but it can't really be him, because he wouldn't let these events stand.

Maybe he is really just Sub-Prime Spock, from a knockoff trek universe (like ALIAS SMITH & JONES was to BUTCH CASSIDY, or original BSG was to SW, or most other Glen Larson series were to earlier more successful creative endeavours by other people.)
Which would explain why future Spock's reality uses the same Earthdate (2378) system for dates as the present reality, instead of the familiar stardate.
3D Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29 2009, 10:26 PM   #2448
Praetor
Vice Admiral
 
Praetor's Avatar
 
Location: The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

You know, just because Leonard Nimoy is playing old Spock doesn't make him the same guy, IMO. I'm happier to assume XI is a clean reboot, that future Spock came from a future that might resemble the one we've been watching for years, but isn't really connected, and ignore the "different quantum reality" back-bending.

For my mileage, Nimoy and other homages to TOS and previous Trek are simply that - homages.
__________________
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
Praetor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 29 2009, 11:47 PM   #2449
trevanian
Rear Admiral
 
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Praetor wrote: View Post
You know, just because Leonard Nimoy is playing old Spock doesn't make him the same guy, IMO. I'm happier to assume XI is a clean reboot, that future Spock came from a future that might resemble the one we've been watching for years, but isn't really connected, and ignore the "different quantum reality" back-bending.

For my mileage, Nimoy and other homages to TOS and previous Trek are simply that - homages.
Interesting take ...

This all kind of reeks 'personal canon' or somesuch ... but I suppose it'll let me rent the movie on 2for1night down the line and see it with a semi-clean conscience.

Still not guaranteeing I'll make it all the way through (never have managed that on ATTACK OF THE CLONES either, and gave up trying the second time through, and I can only watch an hour of CASINO ROYALE at a time), but shoot, I've wanted to see the KELVIN part of the picture anyway ...
trevanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2009, 01:11 AM   #2450
archeryguy1701
Rear Admiral
 
archeryguy1701's Avatar
 
Location: Cheyenne, WY
Send a message via Yahoo to archeryguy1701
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

God, this thread is fun! TPTB did the whole alternate (insert your word of choice) thing so that they could do their own thing without getting lynched by the fans... and instead, they just got the fans wanting to lynch them because they didn't time travel correctly! We just need to face it, it is impossible for any of the people running the franchise to win!

For the alternate timeline/ reality thing... you could probably use the terms interchangably. 3D said that alternate reality means a "parellel universe" while an alternate timeline is "simply a different chain of events". What's the difference? If events start happening differently, then that would automatically indicate that the reality is different. If I were to go back in time and find a way to avert WWI, you can't tell me that what we perceive as reality right now would be the same reality as a world without WWI. If reality is dictated by the chain of events that came before it (and if it isn't, please explain how), then an alternate timeline, or an alternate chain of events, would end up being an alternate reality anyhow.

Spock and Nero ending up in the same alternate reality.... Star Trek hasn't exactly set much of a precedence as to how black hole time travel works, has it? Does it really make sense that a black hole would go back in time and create another black hole/ white hole/ whatever the hell you want to call it in every timeline? What if it just created exit points in one reality, or what if it was the exact same exit point both times? Besides, if the timeline in question erased the old timeline, then Spock should have never made it through in the first place. He should have been erased as soon as Nero entered the black hole.

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is about following precedences that it was never very consistant on in the first place. The writers did what they probably felt that the needed to to get the story along, and I can live with that. Besides, Star Trek that came before has already set the precedence that you can travel back in time and make your own changes, only to go forward in time and find everything exactly how you left it. Anyone with common sense would know that this is bull-shit.
__________________
"If it weren't for stupid, difficult races, there'd simply be no point to living."

Sometimes you just gotta roll the hard six- Bill Adama
archeryguy1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2009, 01:15 AM   #2451
Sakrysta
Vice Admiral
 
Sakrysta's Avatar
 
Location: Sakrysta
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I'm just glad none of it really bothers me. I can understand why some might find it frustrating, but I just don't.
__________________
This is our small proof, not only that things can be done differently in this business, but that the greatest expression of rebellion is joy.
- Joss Whedon, in his Emmy acceptance speech for Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog
Sakrysta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2009, 10:14 AM   #2452
3D Master
Rear Admiral
 
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

archeryguy1701 wrote: View Post
God, this thread is fun! TPTB did the whole alternate (insert your word of choice) thing so that they could do their own thing without getting lynched by the fans... and instead, they just got the fans wanting to lynch them because they didn't time travel correctly! We just need to face it, it is impossible for any of the people running the franchise to win!
In case you hadn't noticed, friend, but that's not the reason JJ gets lynched. He gets lynched for having created a horribly bad movie.

For the alternate timeline/ reality thing... you could probably use the terms interchangably. 3D said that alternate reality means a "parellel universe" while an alternate timeline is "simply a different chain of events". What's the difference? If events start happening differently, then that would automatically indicate that the reality is different. If I were to go back in time and find a way to avert WWI, you can't tell me that what we perceive as reality right now would be the same reality as a world without WWI. If reality is dictated by the chain of events that came before it (and if it isn't, please explain how), then an alternate timeline, or an alternate chain of events, would end up being an alternate reality anyhow.
The difference is that an alternate reality/parallel universe exists simultaneously parallel to other realities/universes. While an alternate timeline means the other timeline is gone, finito, destroyed, and we are still in the very same reality/universe as before, just containing a different set of events.

Personally, I don't see what the big deal is about following precedences that it was never very consistant on in the first place.
Except that it was. Time travel equals a changed timeline, not splitting off a new reality. This has been true for every time travel event in Star Trek.

The writers did what they probably felt that the needed to to get the story along, and I can live with that.
Nope, they did it so they could patronize long-time fans; "See, we didn't really toss all the bad, talky stuff out, if you're a loser who likes intelligent, talky, boring stuff, it still exists in an alternate timeline. We cool people will from no one produce cool, pathetic, unintelligent 'splosions!"

Besides, Star Trek that came before has already set the precedence that you can travel back in time and make your own changes, only to go forward in time and find everything exactly how you left it. Anyone with common sense would know that this is bull-shit.
No, Star Trek has set the precedence that you can make changes that change the timeline, and then you can correct those changes by stopping those or that which made the changes.
3D Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2009, 11:55 AM   #2453
SalvorHardin
Rear Admiral
 
SalvorHardin's Avatar
 
Location: Star's End
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

3D Master wrote: View Post
archeryguy1701 wrote: View Post
God, this thread is fun! TPTB did the whole alternate (insert your word of choice) thing so that they could do their own thing without getting lynched by the fans... and instead, they just got the fans wanting to lynch them because they didn't time travel correctly! We just need to face it, it is impossible for any of the people running the franchise to win!
In case you hadn't noticed, friend, but that's not the reason JJ gets lynched. He gets lynched for having created a horribly bad movie.
In case you hadn't noticed, friend, JJ does not get lynched.
The vast majority of Trek, non-Trek fans and critics enjoyed and praised his movie.

Reality check...
__________________

SalvorHardin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2009, 01:18 PM   #2454
Ovation
Vice Admiral
 
Location: La Belle Province or The Green Mountain State (depends on the day of the week)
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

3D Master wrote: View Post

Except that it was. Time travel equals a changed timeline, not splitting off a new reality. This has been true for every time travel event in Star Trek.
No. It hasn't.

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
archeryguy1701 wrote: View Post
God, this thread is fun! TPTB did the whole alternate (insert your word of choice) thing so that they could do their own thing without getting lynched by the fans... and instead, they just got the fans wanting to lynch them because they didn't time travel correctly! We just need to face it, it is impossible for any of the people running the franchise to win!
In case you hadn't noticed, friend, but that's not the reason JJ gets lynched. He gets lynched for having created a horribly bad movie.
In case you hadn't noticed, friend, JJ does not get lynched.
The vast majority of Trek, non-Trek fans and critics enjoyed and praised his movie.

Reality check...
Quite so.
Ovation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2009, 01:56 PM   #2455
3D Master
Rear Admiral
 
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Ovation wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post

Except that it was. Time travel equals a changed timeline, not splitting off a new reality. This has been true for every time travel event in Star Trek.
No. It hasn't.
Yes, it has.

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post

In case you hadn't noticed, friend, but that's not the reason JJ gets lynched. He gets lynched for having created a horribly bad movie.
In case you hadn't noticed, friend, JJ does not get lynched.
The vast majority of Trek, non-Trek fans and critics enjoyed and praised his movie.

Reality check...
Quite so.
3D Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2009, 02:02 PM   #2456
SalvorHardin
Rear Admiral
 
SalvorHardin's Avatar
 
Location: Star's End
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

3D Master wrote: View Post

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post

In case you hadn't noticed, friend, JJ does not get lynched.
The vast majority of Trek, non-Trek fans and critics enjoyed and praised his movie.

Reality check...
Quite so.
__________________

SalvorHardin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2009, 03:00 PM   #2457
Ovation
Vice Admiral
 
Location: La Belle Province or The Green Mountain State (depends on the day of the week)
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

3D Master wrote: View Post
Ovation wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post

Except that it was. Time travel equals a changed timeline, not splitting off a new reality. This has been true for every time travel event in Star Trek.
No. It hasn't.
Yes, it has.
Nope.

SalvorHardin wrote: View Post

In case you hadn't noticed, friend, JJ does not get lynched.
The vast majority of Trek, non-Trek fans and critics enjoyed and praised his movie.

Reality check...
Quite so.
Which part of "The vast majority of Trek, non-Trek fans and critics enjoyed and praised his movie" do you consider incorrect? Whichever one you chose, you'll be wrong, so don't bother.
Ovation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2009, 03:09 PM   #2458
3D Master
Rear Admiral
 
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Ovation wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
Ovation wrote: View Post
No. It hasn't.
Yes, it has.
Nope.
Wrong.

Quite so.
Which part of "The vast majority of Trek, non-Trek fans and critics enjoyed and praised his movie" do you consider incorrect? Whichever one you chose, you'll be wrong, so don't bother.
In case you hadn't noticed, I answered someone who was claiming that the creators couldn't win because people were lynching them on the time travel method used. I pointed out that that's not the reason people were lynching JJ and his movie.

To anyone with a brain and not a troll, that means he and my answer were talking about those who find severe fault with a movie; unless he himself is already wrong in assuming everyone finds fault with the movie. In the latter case, that's not my mistake, in the first; you're either an idiot for not realizing we are talking about the subset of people who find this movie abysmal, or you're a troll for attempting to make it look like those who find this movie abysmal are disconnected with reality.

So what are you? An idiot or a troll?
3D Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2009, 03:16 PM   #2459
Ovation
Vice Admiral
 
Location: La Belle Province or The Green Mountain State (depends on the day of the week)
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

3D Master wrote: View Post
Ovation wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post

Yes, it has.
Nope.
Wrong.
Yes. Yes you are.

Which part of "The vast majority of Trek, non-Trek fans and critics enjoyed and praised his movie" do you consider incorrect? Whichever one you chose, you'll be wrong, so don't bother.
In case you hadn't noticed, I answered someone who was claiming that the creators couldn't win because people were lynching them on the time travel method used. I pointed out that that's not the reason people were lynching JJ and his movie.

To anyone with a brain and not a troll, that means he and my answer were talking about those who find severe fault with a movie; unless he himself is already wrong in assuming everyone finds fault with the movie. In the latter case, that's not my mistake, in the first; you're either an idiot for not realizing we are talking about the subset of people who find this movie abysmal, or you're a troll for attempting to make it look like those who find this movie abysmal are disconnected with reality.

So what are you? An idiot or a troll?
You really shouldn't go around calling people "idiot" or "troll" in this forum. It's grounds for a warning. TNZ is the place to cut loose like that.
Ovation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 30 2009, 03:27 PM   #2460
Borgminister
Moderator
 
Location: California
Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

3D Master wrote: View Post
So what are you? An idiot or a troll?
Pot, or kettle?

You really shouldn't go around calling people "idiot" or "troll" in this forum. It's grounds for a warning. TNZ is the place to cut loose like that.
Nooooooo, really?

I've always looked at TNZ as the place for gentile and civilized discourse.

Borgminister is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
grading & discussion, parallel star trek, vulcan

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:38 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.