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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies XI+

Star Trek Movies XI+ Discuss J.J. Abrams' rebooted Star Trek here.

View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 706 62.70%
Above Average 213 18.92%
Average 84 7.46%
Below Average 46 4.09%
Poor 77 6.84%
Voters: 1126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 28 2009, 07:09 PM   #2431
number6
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Now you're just splitting hairs. You don't like the film and you went into it intending to not like it, therefore your judgement is already completely colored.

Uhura didn't pull anything out of her ass. She made a reasoned conclusion.

Altered timeline/Altered reality.. In the context of this film there is no difference. The fact that your're making such a distinction where one isn't necessary is proof positive your intent is just to argue without any real facts, other than your own biased predisposition..

You bring up Batman as an example, but it only PROVES my point about the creative team.

The Batman comic book is as different from the 60s TV show is as different from the Burton films, the Schumaker films, the animated series, and the current franchise. The origins of the characters common to all have been changed and rewritten to suit the intent of their respective writing teams. Same could be said for Bond, Lord of the Rings, Superman, Spiderman, Battlestar Galactica and I could go on and on and on. The POINT is that this creative team is within its right to make creative decisions as they see fit. You may not like them (it's pretty obvious that you don't..just an educated guess), but it doesn't make them wrong for doing so. It's their franchise now. You can enjoy the ride or stay home.
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Old June 28 2009, 07:14 PM   #2432
indranee
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Sakrysta wrote: View Post
Saw it for the third time in the theater last night. Just a couple new impressions to mention:

I LIKE this Kirk. I never liked Shatner's Kirk. This guy, I like. He makes me smile, whereas Shatner's Kirk just made me cringe.

I just caught the comment Scotty made about "Admiral Archer's prize beagle." That one kept me giggling off and on throughout the rest of the movie.
yeah, he's kind of adorable, is he not?

I also liked that line. although poor Porthos and poor Archer. *sniff*

I especially liked Scotty's muttered "I'll let you know when he re-appears" line when asked where the beagle was now.

oh, another thing! it looks like this Jim Kirk knows that beagle!! or maybe he knows about it? if so, how?! something to think about there
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Old June 28 2009, 07:22 PM   #2433
number6
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

indranee wrote: View Post
Sakrysta wrote: View Post
Saw it for the third time in the theater last night. Just a couple new impressions to mention:

I LIKE this Kirk. I never liked Shatner's Kirk. This guy, I like. He makes me smile, whereas Shatner's Kirk just made me cringe.

I just caught the comment Scotty made about "Admiral Archer's prize beagle." That one kept me giggling off and on throughout the rest of the movie.
yeah, he's kind of adorable, is he not?

I also liked that line. although poor Porthos and poor Archer. *sniff*

I especially liked Scotty's muttered "I'll let you know when he re-appears" line when asked where the beagle was now.

oh, another thing! it looks like this Jim Kirk knows that beagle!! or maybe he knows about it? if so, how?! something to think about there
Pine really nails Kirk without being Shatner. His mannerisms and facial expressions are spot on. You really get the sense that this is Kirk.

I think they made a good call with Pine. I like his Kirk better than Quinto's Spock. Ironic because Quinto being cast as young Spock drew me into wanting to see the film in the first place.
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Old June 28 2009, 07:24 PM   #2434
indranee
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

^that's exactly how I feel.
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Old June 28 2009, 07:26 PM   #2435
number6
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I'm the Shinzon to your Picard!
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Old June 28 2009, 07:33 PM   #2436
3D Master
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

number6 wrote: View Post
Now you're just splitting hairs. You don't like the film and you went into it intending to not like it, therefore your judgement is already completely colored.
If it was coherently and properly written I would make nothing of it, just like I make nothing of the four scenes that don't have problems up the wazoo, but it isn't.

Uhura didn't pull anything out of her ass.
Yes, she did.

She made a reasoned conclusion.
No, she didn't.

Altered timeline/Altered reality.. In the context of this film there is no difference. The fact that your're making such a distinction where one isn't necessary is proof positive your intent is just to argue without any real facts, other than your own biased predisposition..
If there was no difference, than Uhura wouldn't need to drop the term "alternate reality" after Spock goes on about it being in a CHANGED timeline. The simple fact is that the writers had Uhura pull the term out of her ass so they could say: "See, we didn't REALLY wipe out all your loved stuff, even in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter because you'll never see it on the screen ever again; you're stuck with this empty junk from now on."

It's patronizing.

You bring up Batman as an example, but it only PROVES my point about the creative team.

The Batman comic book is as different from the 60s TV show is as different from the Burton films, the Schumaker films, the animated series, and the current franchise. The origins of the characters common to all have been changed and rewritten to suit the intent of their respective writing teams.

Same could be said for Bond, Lord of the Rings, Superman, Spiderman, Battlestar Galactica and I could go on and on and on. The POINT is that this creative team is within its right to make creative decisions as they see fit. You may not like them (it's pretty obvious that you don't..just an educated guess), but it doesn't make them wrong for doing so. It's their franchise now. You can enjoy the ride or stay home.
Nope, quite the OPPOSITE. Batman is a comic book, it got changed up the wazoo whenver a writer felt like it. And it's one of the reasons why it's considered weak, juvenile, and kids stuff. But even THAT which changes all the time, has things a writer doesn't get to change.

Star Trek was something bigger and grander; 40 years of something that was nearly perfect. Shows and movies that built upon what came before, instead of being just juvenile kids stuff that's just laser blasters and gets to be changed entirely whenever a writer or director feels like it.

No more; it's reduced juvenile kids stuff and just laser blasters that can be changed whenver a writer or director feels like it. And that is why they are wrong for doing so.
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Old June 28 2009, 07:34 PM   #2437
indranee
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

number6 wrote: View Post
I'm the Shinzon to your Picard!
but I'm not bald!!

...yet
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Old June 28 2009, 07:41 PM   #2438
Hartzilla2007
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

3D Master wrote: View Post
. Some writer hired to write Batman doesn't suddenly get to turn him into a stone cold murderer.
Um 3D Master you do know that back in the 1930s Bob Kane (Batman's creator) had Batman offing crooks left and right and he was toned down I think about the time Robin showed up right?
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Old June 28 2009, 07:47 PM   #2439
number6
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

3D Master wrote: View Post

You bring up Batman as an example, but it only PROVES my point about the creative team.

The Batman comic book is as different from the 60s TV show is as different from the Burton films, the Schumaker films, the animated series, and the current franchise. The origins of the characters common to all have been changed and rewritten to suit the intent of their respective writing teams.

Same could be said for Bond, Lord of the Rings, Superman, Spiderman, Battlestar Galactica and I could go on and on and on. The POINT is that this creative team is within its right to make creative decisions as they see fit. You may not like them (it's pretty obvious that you don't..just an educated guess), but it doesn't make them wrong for doing so. It's their franchise now. You can enjoy the ride or stay home.
Nope, quite the OPPOSITE. Batman is a comic book, it got changed up the wazoo whenver a writer felt like it. And it's one of the reasons why it's considered weak, juvenile, and kids stuff. But even THAT which changes all the time, has things a writer doesn't get to change.
I wouldn't exactly call the Burton films or The Dark Night "kid's stuff."

That's not the point of my reply. The point is that each creative team changed what they felt they needed to to tell their story. That is their right. Trek did that with each and every incarnation as well.
Star Trek was something bigger and grander; 40 years of something that was nearly perfect. Shows and movies that built upon what came before, instead of being just juvenile kids stuff that's just laser blasters and gets to be changed entirely whenever a writer or director feels like it.

No more; it's reduced juvenile kids stuff and just laser blasters that can be changed whenver a writer or director feels like it. And that is why they are wrong for doing so.
Except they aren't wrong. The fact that it is a big hit with old fans as well as new proves just how very wrong you are.

And, by the way, Star Trek isn't "nearly perfect." Some fans may have elevated the original show to unrealistic proportions, but it was far from perfect. I am saying that as a lifelong fan. It has its flaws..some endearing and some not.

I enjoyed this film as a full grown adult. I never thought of Trek as "kids stuff," nor do I think this film has dumbed it down. We're not going to agree on this, so you may as well drop it.

If all you have is "Yes it is/No it isn't" for an argument, then you're wasting my time. You made your case over and over and over again. I disagree and made my reasons for doing so. Your continued beating of the same worn, tired drum doesn't change the fact that you're wrong...about a great many things.
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Old June 28 2009, 07:54 PM   #2440
number6
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
3D Master wrote: View Post
. Some writer hired to write Batman doesn't suddenly get to turn him into a stone cold murderer.
Um 3D Master you do know that back in the 1930s Bob Kane (Batman's creator) had Batman offing crooks left and right and he was toned down I think about the time Robin showed up right?
And each creative team that took on Batman made him relevant to the perspective of the era in which each film/series was made.

Today's Batman is very different from Kane's Batman, as are the villians and, in a few cases, their character's origins.

Batman has evolved with the attitudes of the day, as Star Trek has over its several incarnations.
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Old June 29 2009, 03:19 AM   #2441
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

I saw the movie a few weeks ago. I would definitely rate the movie as "Above average" compared to other summer action movies. However, as a fan of the Trek universe I was a bit disappointed. I suppose if it had featured a cast from one of previous series I was more familiar with I would have rated it much higher (i.e. bias). For instance, I didn't like how Spock turned "rogue" and just rejected most of the values he was raised with. Spock as a kid was cool though. The canon issues aren't a big deal since the movie takes place in an alternate timeline. But I'd much rather have seen a movie that *could* be canon.

Still, I wouldn't call the casting "bad". Except for Scotty, the casting was "believable" in terms of everyone being younger versions of themselves. But maybe only for an episode. Putting them in a whole new movie without any prior exposure to them was a bit jarring for me. Even the "New Voyages" fan episodes didn't affect me to the same degree (though this could be because they retained the same basic formula and the same set as the original series).

I guess what everything comes down to is whether I would go see another movie featuring the same cast/director. I could only give you a "maybe", or a "likely" given that there's not much else out there I'd want to go and see.

My 2 cents.
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Old June 29 2009, 03:31 AM   #2442
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
Kirk also goes to the Academy about eight years earlier in the original timeline and is an experience, seasoned officer by the time he's assigned command of the Enterprise, whereas in this case, we're talking the "Top Gun" school of "rising through the ranks on the merits of being a smokin' hot bad boy!"
...one who is eight years older than everyone else!

Ever been in a class where there was that one guy who was older than everyone?

Sorry couldn't resist.
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Old June 29 2009, 07:08 PM   #2443
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

number6 wrote: View Post
The point is that each creative team changed what they felt they needed to to tell their story. That is their right. Trek did that with each and every incarnation as well.
But they maintained the timeline and therefore indeed built on, at least somewhat, on past events. I think Trek is more than just characters or concepts but all of the events that occurred. Batman film or TV projects are adaptations, but the comic's still around and I don't think it should be abandoned just because it's been around for a long time, in fact I think that brings advantages.

number6 wrote: View Post
I enjoyed this film as a full grown adult. I never thought of Trek as "kids stuff," nor do I think this film has dumbed it down.
Isn't "dumbing down" just a blunter way of saying simplified and made more accessible (this film being praised for the latter)?
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Old June 29 2009, 07:15 PM   #2444
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

suarezguy wrote: View Post
number6 wrote: View Post
I enjoyed this film as a full grown adult. I never thought of Trek as "kids stuff," nor do I think this film has dumbed it down.
Isn't "dumbing down" just a blunter way of saying simplified and made more accessible (this film being praised for the latter)?
Not really.
Around here those who use it usually mean "we are the smart ones, the movie is crap and was made for mindless idiots like you"
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Old June 29 2009, 07:23 PM   #2445
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Re: The Official STAR TREK Grading & Discussion Thread [SPOILERS]

Anticitizen wrote: View Post
Regarding the time travel/alternate timeline:

Absolutely nothing in the movie suggests that its events are in an 'alternate' timeline that's co-existing alongside the 'prime' timeline. And absolutely nothing suggests that it's the same timeline that's been altered. We're not given indications either way, Uhura's wild guess notwithstanding.

Therefore, we must turn to other Trek for our interpretation of the events - previous time travel stories. Traditionally, in Trek, if you go back in time and change something, you alter the existing timeline you came from - not branch off into another timeline.

See 'Return to Yesterday', 'Yesterday's Enterprise,' 'City on the Edge of Forever', 'First Contact, whatever episode in which Data's head - from the past - is found (which means they went back in time to their OWN timeline)... etc etc etc.

Therefore I tend to lean toward the interpretation that the original timeline has been destroyed and does not exist.

It means, of course, that Spock Prime should be doing his damndest to fix the timeline, as he's been known to do in the past when time travel screws it up, but I'm sure that won't happen.
Wow, you're my hero. How'd you get this posted without a horde of vultures coming into the thread and plucking your eyeballs out?

Your last paragraph makes me think that what they have in this abrams movie might LOOK like primeSpock, but it can't really be him, because he wouldn't let these events stand.

Maybe he is really just Sub-Prime Spock, from a knockoff trek universe (like ALIAS SMITH & JONES was to BUTCH CASSIDY, or original BSG was to SW, or most other Glen Larson series were to earlier more successful creative endeavours by other people.)
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