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Old April 27 2009, 03:43 AM   #46
shivkala
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

Well for one, I think the effects on Earth because of the Minbari/Earth war would have been more profound. I can see the Battle of the Line becoming the Battle for Earth, with the war ending after major cities are wiped out and only a fraction of humanity survived.

Thus the point of Earth being involved in the Babylon Project would not be to secure the peace, but rather to seek aid from the other worlds to survive.

I also think the First Ones (including the Vorlons and Shadows) would have acted more from the sidelines, maybe not even fully revealing themselves, rather acting through the younger races. Similar to the "Head Six/Head Baltar," characters like Sheriden, Delenn, and Sinclair who were among those closest to Kosh would be prompted to do thing by a proxy for Kosh. Likewise, Morden would be a "Head" character for Londo.

Babylon 5's attempts at humor would all be erased. I know some who would probably welcome that!

Also, more characters would have had sex and with multiple partners. When you think about it, the characters in B5 were mostly monogamous. Not so much in BSG, at least where Kara and Lee are concerned.
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Old April 27 2009, 04:12 AM   #47
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

At least there was some humor on B5 which is more than I can say for Battlestar Galactica.
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Old April 27 2009, 04:43 AM   #48
-Brett-
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

Joe Washington wrote: View Post
What aspects of the original show would be changed in this remake? Which aspects would you rather be changed? How gritty do it think it would be? Would it take the same kind of risks in storytelling the way Battlestar Galactica did? Would be the relationships between the characters be portrayed more realistically and develop more organically? Would be the humor less chessy and more sharp and witty like Joss Whedon's brand of humor in his shows?

Let the discussion begin.
You'd want the storyline to be rambling and incoherent, taking looooooooong detours to cover geriatric soap opera shenanigans and love dodecahedrals, and half the cast are secret Vorlons?

No thanks.
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Old April 27 2009, 04:54 AM   #49
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

A team of RDM and JMS would be THE MOST AWESOME, KICKASS, team in all of science-fiction history, and would be a union so grand in it's pure awesomeness, that the universe itself would explode, from an inability to cope with such blinding grandeur.
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Old April 27 2009, 05:08 AM   #50
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

BolianAdmiral wrote: View Post
A team of RDM and JMS would be THE MOST AWESOME, KICKASS, team in all of science-fiction history, and would be a union so grand in it's pure awesomeness, that the universe itself would explode, from an inability to cope with such blinding grandeur.
No, you're thinking of Captain Robau.
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Old April 27 2009, 09:14 AM   #51
Joe Washington
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

Yeah, almost every relationship on Babylon 5 was monogamous. But this is supposed to be taking place in the future and one would think that there would be many different kinds of relationships between humans, and between humans and aliens. Monogamous, three-way, four-way, etc. There would have been different kinds of sexual orientations: straight, gay, lesbian, bi-sexuality, pan-sexuality, etc. We've seen sparks of something more between Ivanova and Talia and that episode where Marcus and Franklin went undercover as a couple on honeymoon but we didn't get more than that and explore it in more detail with the characters. Think Captain Jack Harkness from Torchwood and the future he comes from.
Maybe that's another thing that would separate the remake from the original and which the remake could benefit from.
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Old April 27 2009, 09:23 AM   #52
Joe Washington
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

And shikvala: you're right about the fact that the effects of the Earth-Minbari War wasn't explored enough. This was a bloody war between two alien races that began with a horrible misunderstanding. There would have a lot more than tension we saw on the show between Humans and Minbari, even after ten years of peace.

And one of the things I found confusing on the original show was that Sinclair seem a little on and off when it comes to the Minbari. In Midnight on the Firing Line, he seem to have come to terms with what happened in the Battle of the Line and accepted that the Minbari are Earth's allies. But in the Sky Full of Stars, when he was being held captive and having his mind intruded, he reveals his anger towards the Minbari and how scarred he was by the Battle of the Line. That's Sinclair we should have seen more of. But I gather get that from Sheridan than from him because at least his portrayal of it should seem less wooden and incoherent, and more emotional and consistent.
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Old April 27 2009, 12:28 PM   #53
Jan
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

Joe Washington wrote: View Post
And one of the things I found confusing on the original show was that Sinclair seem a little on and off when it comes to the Minbari. In Midnight on the Firing Line, he seem to have come to terms with what happened in the Battle of the Line and accepted that the Minbari are Earth's allies. But in the Sky Full of Stars, when he was being held captive and having his mind intruded, he reveals his anger towards the Minbari and how scarred he was by the Battle of the Line. That's Sinclair we should have seen more of. But I gather get that from Sheridan than from him because at least his portrayal of it should seem less wooden and incoherent, and more emotional and consistent.
It's not that he's wooden, he's under a huge strain. Like any good military man, he knows that one minute he's got to fight and kill people and the next minute the same people are allies. Internal conflict arrises when he also becomes friends with at least one of the race which killed his friends and tortured him.

He also knows that as just a Commander, he never should have gotten command of B5 and that every move he make will be scrutinized. Given the visibility of the job, he knows that there are plenty of people who'd like nothing better than to pounce if he makes a mistake. Even so, he wants to do the right thing, not just the convenient thing.

Next time you watch it, look at Sinclair as a man a) suffering from PTSD and b) holding a command far out of his depth and having to cope while under a microscope. I think you'll find subtleties there you hadn't noticed before. Sinclair just didn't wear his emotions on his sleeve or chew the scenery like others do.

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Old April 27 2009, 01:46 PM   #54
Anwar
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

Yeah, I realized the duality of Sinclair when I first saw the show and I appreciated it as realistic and not just bad acting. The guy has to be the Earth Ambassador and the Commander of a high-profile place like B5 but at the same time struggles with his wartime trauma and the damage the 24 hour blackout did to his career (which is why he's still a Commander and not a Captain or Rear Admiral yet). This causes him to put on a different face during diplomatic affairs but he's a much darker character in private or when dealing with his past during the Minbari War.
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Old April 27 2009, 02:50 PM   #55
Joe Washington
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

How about this? Sinclair is the commanding officer of Babylon 5 and continues to be for the rest of the series. His ex-fiancee Catherine Sakai "died" during a planetary survey with her group when their freighter blew up prior to the beginning of the series. Sheridan takes the role of General Hague.

Valen's destiny is given to Sinclair and Delenn's son.

And the reason why the Earth-Minbari War ended is because Delenn ran a bio-scan on Sinclair in captivity out of some curiosity that called to her and he was identified as one of the destined parents of Valen mentioned in an ancient Minbari prophecy. It was said in that the prophecy that a human and a woman merged of two worlds will become united, paving the way for Valen's birth and the eventual fullfillment of his destiny to be the man Minbar knows him to be thousands of years ago. Only the highest members of the Religious Caste and the Warrior Caste know of the prophecy. The Warriors think it's a buch of crap but is forced to stand by it since it was clearly written in Valen's hand. And attached to the prophecy are samples of the man and the woman's DNA, which are to be used to identify the parents and set things into motion for their union. Delenn felt immense guilt after realizing that she nearly killed one of the destined parents and that's why she went along with the decision to stop the war before it goes too far. Because if they are to let Valen be born according to prophecy, they need to let the human race live along with Sinclair and allow enough time to pass by until he meet the woman merged of two worlds. At that time, Delenn didn't know that the woman was her.

It's because of this prophecy that the Minbari chose Sinclair to be the commanding officer of Babylon 5. Because with Delenn there, they could keep a close eye on him and protect him from danger that could hinder his role in Valen's birth.

I never did like that whole "we discovered Minbar souls in human" reason to the ending of the war. It just didn't feel right in the show. What you guys think?
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Old April 27 2009, 03:17 PM   #56
flavaflav
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

I wouldn't mind a B5 remake, but I don't think it's needed. I pretty much agree with Temis' original post. I also wouldn't want it to be anything like nuBSG. If anything, that would be a major step backwards. All-emo all the time is not a good recipe and made bsg virtually unwatchable the last 2+ seasons.
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Old April 27 2009, 04:37 PM   #57
Joe Washington
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

What about the first 2 seasons?
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Old April 27 2009, 06:19 PM   #58
mandragora
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

Jan wrote: View Post
ETA: I wonder about those who think B5 would have been better without it being the single vision of one person. I generally think they're letting their opionion of JMS the man color their opinion of the show. because inevitably there are also complaints about the 'stand-alone' episodes and the weakness of the first season.

One of the issues I had with BSG is that they would have episodes about problems that made perfect sense, such as the black market, but the problem didn't build up, it just suddenly became the crisis of the week. With JMS as the single writer for much of B5, he was able to set things up weeks and months in advance. Most people see that as one of the show's major strengths.
I don't think B5 would necessarily have been better with more writers, but that is due to the circumstances, not because having just one writer is the superior solution in principle. On the contrary, I think provided some prerequisites are met, a team is likely to be better. What is needed is a plan, a team of regular staff writers who agree to said plan, and one or two persons who guide that team, and regular meetings to discuss how to proceed with the show.

The problem with B5 was that it had none of this. Long-term story arcs were unheard of at the time, and thus there was no template how to deal with such a concept. The stand-alone episodes that fell short were written by freelancers who were given minimum information, the staff writers, namely DiTilio, had their own ideas what to do with the show. This is not team work. In principle, once the necessary conditions are met, I see no reason why a team shouldn't be able to accomplish a show like B5. It would take a team leader with good people skills, and the writers would be required to set their ego aside and follow the course determined by the entire team, but in principle I see no reason why it should be necessary for one man to work himself half to death.
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Old April 27 2009, 07:08 PM   #59
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

The problem with remaking B5 is that the story is so integral to the series. I don't want to see them just recreate the plot of the series, I'd want to see something completely new that makes the hairs on the back of my neck stick up like they did when I watched it for the first time.

It's a really tough act to follow.
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Old April 27 2009, 07:23 PM   #60
Joe Washington
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Re: What if a BSG-styled remake of Babylon 5 was made?

Would be the plot of the Babylon 5 remake if you had your way with it?
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