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Old May 6 2009, 03:23 PM   #91
USS Mariner
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Impressive work. I can't wait to see a walk through tour of your version.
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Old May 6 2009, 05:11 PM   #92
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Perhaps I'm too sensitive. There's something about seeing such a well-executed cross-section of my favorite starship that puts me in the mind of viewing a cadaver that's been sliced in half.

I may have to excuse myself by the time this is finished.
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Old May 7 2009, 04:30 AM   #93
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Gep Malakai said:
So in its polygonal form, will people be able to carve big holes in it to show all the nuts-and-bolts goodness?
That would be the plan, yeah. Of course, once exported in this fashion, it becomes clusters of non-parametric surface polygons, rather than parametrically-driven solid geometry, so there are things that'll be lost. On the other hand, there may be things GAINED as well.

I'm an engineer, not an artist... I'd love to see what someone who's really, really good with lighting and texturing could do to make it more fully 3D. I'd love to see someone take it and put some "Poser" people inside a few regions which they'd dressed up to be more "set-like." We've all got our skill sets, and this is mine. I'd love to see someone apply their skills on top of mine here, if they can make it into a better "product" in the process.

But like I said, I don't intend to just post it and let it float across the whole 'net. I want to remain involved, or at the very least get full credit for my part.

USS Mariner said:
Impressive work. I can't wait to see a walk through tour of your version.
That's one of those areas which someone else might pick up the ball with... I'm not sure I plan to create a "tour" of the ship that way. Right now, my best ability is to tie a camera to a deck (at a specific height from that deck) and then "dolly" it around. Making this into a "product" for people to take tours with... that's a whole 'nother business.

Psion said:
Perhaps I'm too sensitive. There's something about seeing such a well-executed cross-section of my favorite starship that puts me in the mind of viewing a cadaver that's been sliced in half.

I may have to excuse myself by the time this is finished.
Then I suppose I need to make sure that none of the crew are along the cutting surfaces... could get messy!

Now... to what I've done this evening...

Not too much, really, at least that anyone would normally notice. However, it's taken a couple of hours to do this "not much."

First, I've created "Deck 15"... which consists of the transitional room between the dorsal and the secondary hull, and the upper level of the "Strongback" region of the secondary hull. Very little of the detail there will be visible in a normal cross-section view, so I selected the floor of that deck... just so you can see what it's really like.



Basically, there's only one "room" there (which has only one function... it's where a car can be pulled from the lift system for maintenance). Otherwise, the entire region is subdivided (by structural members). Inside of the interstitial spaces between those structural members will be sealed pressure vessels, for storage of various fluids (compressed gasses, water, whatever). Access is only from the next deck down, where there is a rectangular service corridor with all that plumbing and so forth in it.

A side note - as I thought about what Deck 16 will look like, I realized that I think we've already seen it (not sure if they called it Deck 16 or something else, but as far as I'm concerned, that's what it was). Remember the scene in "In a Mirror Darkly" where they're in full-height service corridors? I've decided that was on Deck 16. (Anyone remember whether or not there was a line in the ep stating what level they were supposed to be on?)

You can sort of make out things in this view. Deck 15 looks "solid" here, because there are longitudinal structural elements along the centerline, but realise it's not "solid" at all.

Deck 16 is much more evident. This is really a major "service deck," with heavy structural elements, tons of hardware, and more various tankage and bulk storage.

You can also note some stuff happening along the underside of the secondary hull, which I'll get to in a moment.



Basically, you can see the underside levels of the secondary hull pretty clearly there. At the aft, there's square hatch, white outlined in red from outside. That's a "cargo lift" airlock (remember, that's the main cargo facility as the taller-than-average deck you see down there). Just forward of that are two more hatches, which are currently not divided, but which will be. The aftmost is the white-outlined-in-grey rectangle... this is also accessible from the cargo deck central corridor, but normally is something like a "bomb bay" for dropping specialized cargos (say, atmospheric seeding to support terraforming projects?).

I've also got another idea for a function this might serve, being as it's potentially a pass-through from the main cargo deck. Suppose... just SUPPOSE... that occasionally the Enterprise gets a speciality shuttle assigned, like, say, a long-range courier. Maybe that doesn't get stowed with the normal shuttles at all, but could be deployed through the "bomb bay."

Maybe an "aquashuttle?" Or how about something to carry slaver weapons around? Not part of the normal complement, so not associated with the main hangar. But potentially deployable this way, nevertheless.

Just forward of that is the light-grey-outlined-in-dark-grey "T" shape hatch, which is a service port for the secondary hull fusion reactors (three two-reactor clusters arranged... shockingly... in a general "T" shape). That will be subdivided, and there will be an unprocessed reactor output feed going up from there towards main engineering.
Finally, forward of the pair of structural rings you find the circular yellow hatch... this is the deployment carousel for nav-beacon/comm-sats (at least 200 stored in there and deployed at regular intervals as the ship passes through uncharted regions. (They can also be retrofit with big sunlamps, of course!). Forward of that will be the main water reprocessing facility for the ship. And yes, the main tractor beam will be where you probably expect it to be.



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Old May 7 2009, 07:05 AM   #94
Savage Dragon
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post

I'm an engineer, not an artist... I'd love to see what someone who's really, really good with lighting and texturing could do to make it more fully 3D. I'd love to see someone take it and put some "Poser" people inside a few regions which they'd dressed up to be more "set-like." We've all got our skill sets, and this is mine. I'd love to see someone apply their skills on top of mine here, if they can make it into a better "product" in the process.
That would be fantastic to see! I really like what your doing here, even if I can't understand half of it!
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Old May 7 2009, 03:45 PM   #95
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
I'm an engineer, not an artist...
You forgot to say "Damn it, Jim..."
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Old May 7 2009, 05:20 PM   #96
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

This gets more awesome with each day.
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Old May 7 2009, 10:55 PM   #97
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

A couple more significant updates...

First... some purely external, purely cosmetic stuff. Best seen here:



Yep, banners and proper colors for the deflector/sensor emplacment. (Plus, the little rings inside the dish.)

That's the only "render" shot for the moment, because the major thing I've been toying with can better be seen in section views.





Notice it? If not... look closely at the aftmost portion of the secondary hull.

Yes, I have the basic structure of the landing bay established.

Here it is, in lateral section.


The one thing I've always assumed was just a mistake, but which we really can't "fix" without changing EVERYTHING, is the location of that little aft "dome" arrangement. I'm sure someone thought it would look like the pivot for the doors, but obviously that's not remotely plausible. So what we end up with is a little "roomlet" that literally overhangs and "hugs" the curvature of the door, without actually being in contact with the door.

Seeing it from perspective gives a slightly better feel for the spaces around the bay, and of the little "observation dome."


Now, looking aft from the forward wall of the landing bay, you can see how the room looks (though not shot with any form of perspective here... my CAD package doesn't do that, so I have to do that with an external renderer if I want it). There's a lot of space between the hull and the hangar (though it constricts as you move aft, of course). The only real compromise this makes me make is to widen the "observation gallery", and to relocate the exterior observation gallery windows to line up better with the deck. I've decided not to have a "step down" to the gallery... it just makes no sense to me, and the windows will look just fine with the small vertical relocation I'm talking about.



One thing you'll probably notice, here, is that the doors have some detail. You can see, if you sort of "squint" and pretend you're seeing this through a fish-eye lens, that the view is very similar to what's seen on-screen in various TOS episodes (specifically, the relationship of the door to the interior set).

About those doors... well... I don't have them articulated, but I may choose to add some articulation at a later date. For now, I just wanted to get the details right, but they're solid, with no separate (moving) parts.

Here's the outside view of this area, close-up.


And to better show how the doors operate, here's a section just a half-meter up from the deck level. Basically, each section of the door slips inside of the next section... nesting sort of like those weird Russian dolls. The reason for this is that I couldn't come up with any practical way to make "concentric" doors (each section being a "leaf" with a different mean diameter) actually SEAL. But this is very easy to seal, and it's more mechanically robust to boot. I'm very happy with it.


One quick question... I know that we've seen in various 3rd-party resources that there were various hatches and markings on the deck, but I don't recall ever seeing those on-screen. Am I mistaken about that?

EDIT: One thing I almost forgot... I realize that scale may not be immediately apparent to everyone, so I thought I should toss in a figure to help illustrate.

What I've done here is added two 6'0" tall "Poser" export figures, to provide a sense or proportion. The first is in the landing bay, and the second is standing, effectively, in the middle of Main Engineering.
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Old May 7 2009, 11:38 PM   #98
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Stunning! So what are your plans for the red hatch underneath the hanger deck? Workbees as is fairly common these days? Or something else altogether?
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Old May 7 2009, 11:45 PM   #99
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Albertese wrote: View Post
Stunning! So what are your plans for the red hatch underneath the hanger deck? Workbees as is fairly common these days? Or something else altogether?
Well, the hatch itself opens to a wide corridor. On either side, in the "slanted" area, is shuttle fuel storage. Once you have a full deck thickness, there are three workbee docking stations per side, (facing outwards from the centerline). The forward portion of this "corridor" leads, through a pressure door, into a cargo stowage area (multiple, normal-sized rooms. There will be a lift going down to the next level, which is also cargo stowage. There is additional access to this lower cargo level through a "cargo lift" (white square with red outline, from the outside).

So... yeah, there are workbees which enter and exit through there. But they're there mainly to move cargo in and out... the main purpose is cargo transfer. In the case of major damage to the ship, this region will also serve as the main staging area for structural repair work (with repair plating being moved up to this area where it can be carried out and welded into place by the workbees).
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Old May 8 2009, 04:48 AM   #100
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

What about tankage for matter, anti-matter and such?
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Old May 8 2009, 05:12 AM   #101
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
What about tankage for matter, anti-matter and such?
What about it? Not sure I understand what you're asking.
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Old May 8 2009, 05:51 AM   #102
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

I think he's asking where you plan on putting it. My guess is you're going with the (admittedly muddy) producer's intent that this was all self-contained in the nacelles. Which brings up another point of interest, are you planning n detailing the interior of the nacelles? I'd love to see your take on that hardware.

--Alex
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Old May 8 2009, 06:13 AM   #103
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Albertese wrote: View Post
I think he's asking where you plan on putting it. My guess is you're going with the (admittedly muddy) producer's intent that this was all self-contained in the nacelles.
Well, honestly, part of what I found confusing about the question was that, in this thread (and even on this page) I've already addressed that, at least partially.

You're correct about what I'm going with (I've said as much, again, on this very page already). I'm not sure why this would be "muddy," though. My personal take is that it's nonsensical to have this sort of hardware inside of the habitable spaces of the ship. Also, Jefferies (as an aerospace guy) was very familiar with where power comes from on aircraft, and was using that model... a model I'm 100% in agreement with.

The funny thing is that so many people seem to have adopted "post-1988" Trek "technobabble technology" as somehow being reality. We know how the 1701-D was built... because they told us, in tedious detail, how every "self-sealing stem bolt" was used. None of that is REAL, after all.

I think this is a better approach. Other people may not agree, but if they don't agree, they're welcome to ignore my project, or to go do their own.
Which brings up another point of interest, are you planning n detailing the interior of the nacelles? I'd love to see your take on that hardware.
I do plan to do that, and have quite a bit of it worked out already.

I'm using much of the concept behind Geoffrey Mandell's old "Warp Drive Blueprint" (though none of the actual detailed arrangement). Somebody familiar with both would be able to see what I've retained from his concept (which, itself, was largely based upon TAS). But yes, the nacelles will be there, and they will have guts.

EDIT: Here's the old Mandel print, by the way. Again, conceptually, this is much like what I'll have, but in terms of the details, I'll be significantly different.

Last edited by Cary L. Brown; May 8 2009 at 06:25 AM.
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Old May 8 2009, 09:21 AM   #104
Savage Dragon
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

I am so loving this project! It's giving me an itch to continue on with the Blender tutorial I was doing a while back.
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Old May 8 2009, 01:52 PM   #105
Albertese
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post

You're correct about what I'm going with (I've said as much, again, on this very page already). I'm not sure why this would be "muddy," though. My personal take is that it's nonsensical to have this sort of hardware inside of the habitable spaces of the ship. Also, Jefferies (as an aerospace guy) was very familiar with where power comes from on aircraft, and was using that model... a model I'm 100% in agreement with.
Oh I'm with you completely. I was was merely giving some room for those guys who insist on clinging to a few odd references such as (but not limited to) "Elaan of Troyius" that seem to put that hardware in the midst of the secondary hull. My personal et arrangement puts all the big reactor stuff in the nacelles with a smaller third reactor near the Engine Room. This too satisfies all the on-screen references. But I think it was Matt's original intent to keep all that business upstairs, my third reactor is to satisfy certain aspects of what is probably from writers not quite getting the concept.

Anyhow, I'm loving your take on everything here. I look forward to following your progress.

--Alex
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