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Old November 1 2009, 10:49 PM   #451
CuttingEdge100
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

No offense Cary, but can you get back to the TOS Enterprise assuming you haven't finished?
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Old November 1 2009, 11:40 PM   #452
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

CuttingEdge100 wrote: View Post
No offense Cary, but can you get back to the TOS Enterprise assuming you haven't finished?
Well, ya know, I have to satisfy those who are paying me for my work, so I guess you're right.

Oh, wait... nobody's paying me for any of this. Hmmm... what to do, what to do?

Seriously, at the moment I'm doing exactly what I said I was going to do... I finished up the nacelles on the 1701, and now I'm spending a little bit of time on something else. I'll come back to the 1701 when the "fatigue" I'm feeling on that has worn off. If you're suggesting that I should simply leave this thread alone 'til I start on this model again, well, that might be a valid argument... though that'll mean that this thread will fall off the radar entirely unless people post off-topic things.
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Old November 2 2009, 08:25 AM   #453
Mytran
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

OK, here's a question to keep things bimbling along: Your nacelle design features the white aft end sphere as the subspace generator (or similar). But on the show there were two other designs shown before this one (most notably different being the grill in WNMHGB).
Have you developed any ideas as to how these fit into your nacelle design as well?
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Old November 2 2009, 03:58 PM   #454
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Mytran wrote: View Post
OK, here's a question to keep things bimbling along: Your nacelle design features the white aft end sphere as the subspace generator (or similar). But on the show there were two other designs shown before this one (most notably different being the grill in WNMHGB).
Have you developed any ideas as to how these fit into your nacelle design as well?
Oh yeah, absolutely... the sphere was always there, and the same "nacelle hull" was always there. The retrofits to the engines involved moving internal components around and replacing some elements.

So... the earlier versions lacked "antimatter generation." They had the antimatter bottles along the outer wall of the nacelle, under the banner, and required refueling on a regular basis. Replace my aft "antimatter storage facility" and move the sphere forward.

Why keep the "s-curve cowling?" Remember, how I have them steering at warp is by a combination of "cooling" of reaction-product flows by the intercoolers and control reactor along with "multiple supplementary injection into the sphere." In the earlier versions, the intercooler was less robust, but the available number of "injection port angles" into the sphere were greater.

The "Cage" and "WNMHGB" nacelles are almost identical. The only tweaks between the two involved the aft face of the nacelle. I presume that the original version has some form of sensor pad across the aft surface (this was an almost experimental engine technology at the time, after all). By the time WNMHGB came around, they'd removed the sensor, and added some "reaction product venting" capabilities (which ended up proving to be entirely unnecessary, were never used, and thus were removed later on when the "antimatter generation" engine nacelle refit took place.)

See, the difference between the 200-crew "pilot versions" and the 430-crew "series version," to me, is almost entirely based around the "production implementation" of elementary-level matter manipulation... replicators and "matter-state-flipping." Replicators freed up enough cargo space to permit the entire complement and resources of a planetary survey vessel to be installed in the freed-up volume. And efficient antimatter generation technology extended the range of the vessels tremendously, so that they were no longer required to stay within a month's travel or so from the nearest base at all times, as had been the case with Pike's time.

The "extended range" of the new technology was promoted to the public by virtue of a widely publicized "5-year mission" that twelve heavy cruisers, refit to the new "explorer" hybrid configuration, were sent on.
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Old November 2 2009, 05:10 PM   #455
Mytran
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Brilliant! Well thought out, as always. I've never considered that the sphere was inside the nacelle in the early days, but it makes a lot of sense. Thanks.
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Old December 16 2009, 06:57 AM   #456
Cary L. Brown
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Location: Austin, Texas
Ending this thread...

There will be no further postings by me on the TrekBBS for the foreseeable future... at least not until the current management leaves.

Recently, I was subjected to another round of harassment and mistreatment... in particular, this thread:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.ph...69#post3581969

which brought on this response:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...5&postcount=93

and then, as soon as my "suspension" for that expired, here:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.ph...78#post3651578

Where Dennis blatantly (and unprovokedly) attacked me. I asked for the mod to make some comment and was blown off. As is typically the case here, he was given a free pass when he violated the BBS rules. After giving the moderator TWO WEEKS (with several PMs between myself and that moderator, as well as the board Admin, during that time) to deal with the situation, it became clear that Dennis and his little group of fanboys are once again in the "special privileges" arena. SO... I responded to his unprovoked attack on me and, as expected, was given another "week-long ban."

During this time, I asked T'Bone to "prune" this thread... as I know that I've brought in a fair number of "hits" to the TrekBBS and I do not want to continue to contribute "hits" for advertising revenue to a place which is effectively run in this offensive and inappropriate fashion. As expected, she ignored my request entirely.

I've considered just deleting all the linked images from my Imageshack account... it's an inconvenience to me and I'd rather avoid that (I do plan on posting some of this elsewhere, on another site which is not run as a "fascist clubhouse"). I may still do so. However, I decided that for anyone really interested in this, I should let you know... because of the HORSE SHIT that the majority of the BBS staff regularly perpetrates (PTrope is one of the few who has never crossed that "one set of rules for our buddies, who get to do anything they like, and another set of "make 'em up as we go just to drive away people we don't like" rules for anyone who won't kiss their collective asses, by the way... he's not perfect but he's never crossed this particular line, and I respect him for it.)...

Well, because of this, well... I'm just tired of it, so I'll give the lying, rotten little bastards what they so clearly want. Congratulations, Dennie-boy. Keep riding on that "I wrote a story for a TV show once" thing. Congratulations, M'Sharak, for going into a spitting-frenzy anytime anyone talks back to one of your pals (and especially ST-One, who you leap seem to take an almost "overprotective mommy who'll defend her spoiled child from any consequences" attitude towards), even if they're the ones who're attacking the "backtalker" in the first place. Congratulations everyone.

This site is not a "fun place to discuss Star Trek." It's a private clubhouse for a bunch of nasty, vicious bastards to exercise some little power (even those who are prohibited by law from going within several blocks of anyplace where children can be found... and there are quite a few of those who've gravitated to this BBS, by the way, and are permitted to do anything they like by the "management"... ). It only POSES as a "fun place to discuss Star Trek." But I've seen too many people... including several MODERATORS... subjected to this same "you're not with us, so you're against us, and we'll destroy you" routine.

It's disgusting. It's not fun. It's not RIGHT. And it's not acceptable.

I strongly recommend that anyone who's experienced, or observed, this bullshit seriously consider walking away from this place. There are plenty of other sites on the 'net... sites which may be draconian about enforcing rules, or very loose about enforcing them, but which do have ONE SET OF RULES FOR EVERYONE, instead of "one to reward our friends and lovers" and "one to punish anyone who won't submit to our whims."

The TrekBBS is how it is because of the attitudes of those who run it, from the top down. I truly hope that Paramount starts to take a closer interest in this site... which, I suspect, is using the "Trek" concept in a for-profit manner, yet not paying for that privilege. A site that's "friendly and open to the community" may be considered a positive from the standpoint of PPC's legal department, but one that operates as this one does has the potential to harm the company's intellectual property... and I hope, very much, that they'll start to pay attention.

Assuming that my account isn't immediately deleted based upon my posting this, you can PM me, and I'll read those for a while. But I think I'm done being harassed and mistreated by a group which includes fascists and convicted sex offenders, and I don't plan to post anything further.

PTrope, if you find this post a problem, please feel free to do as I asked T'Bone to do, a number of days back, and simply delete the entire thread.
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Old December 16 2009, 09:05 AM   #457
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

So, you're just gonna let the bastards win?

Believe it or not, flame wars like these are nothing new in fandom. The only difference is that instead of having to wait until the next issue of a fanzine or newsletter to see the next flame and respond to it, the back-and-forth can be almost instantaneous.

C'mon, we've got ships to finish.

And the best thing is to just avoid the ST XI folder entirely. Let the trolls feed on each other for a while.
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Old December 16 2009, 10:18 AM   #458
Mytran
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

I have to agree with CRA, the ST XI threads invariably descend into variations of "I liked it therefore you're wrong", if not poorly disguised trolling.
People who try and put their arguments across rationally in this debate (and I think Cary has done a great job in this regard, by continually emphasising that this is just his opinion, not fact) are soon swamped by a deluge of the less verbally articulate.
Such things are not fun to read and quickly get boring. Threads like this one are why I keep coming back to TrekBBS.
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Old December 16 2009, 10:23 AM   #459
Gep Malakai
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

I love it whenever I get an opportunity to bust out this threadbomb:

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Old December 16 2009, 12:12 PM   #460
ST-One
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Re: Ending this thread...

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
There will be no further postings by me on the TrekBBS for the foreseeable future... at least not until the current management leaves.

Recently, I was subjected to another round of harassment and mistreatment... in particular, this thread:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.ph...69#post3581969

which brought on this response:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...5&postcount=93

and then, as soon as my "suspension" for that expired, here:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.ph...78#post3651578

Where Dennis blatantly (and unprovokedly) attacked me. I asked for the mod to make some comment and was blown off. As is typically the case here, he was given a free pass when he violated the BBS rules. After giving the moderator TWO WEEKS (with several PMs between myself and that moderator, as well as the board Admin, during that time) to deal with the situation, it became clear that Dennis and his little group of fanboys are once again in the "special privileges" arena. SO... I responded to his unprovoked attack on me and, as expected, was given another "week-long ban."

During this time, I asked T'Bone to "prune" this thread... as I know that I've brought in a fair number of "hits" to the TrekBBS and I do not want to continue to contribute "hits" for advertising revenue to a place which is effectively run in this offensive and inappropriate fashion. As expected, she ignored my request entirely.

I've considered just deleting all the linked images from my Imageshack account... it's an inconvenience to me and I'd rather avoid that (I do plan on posting some of this elsewhere, on another site which is not run as a "fascist clubhouse"). I may still do so. However, I decided that for anyone really interested in this, I should let you know... because of the HORSE SHIT that the majority of the BBS staff regularly perpetrates (PTrope is one of the few who has never crossed that "one set of rules for our buddies, who get to do anything they like, and another set of "make 'em up as we go just to drive away people we don't like" rules for anyone who won't kiss their collective asses, by the way... he's not perfect but he's never crossed this particular line, and I respect him for it.)...

Well, because of this, well... I'm just tired of it, so I'll give the lying, rotten little bastards what they so clearly want. Congratulations, Dennie-boy. Keep riding on that "I wrote a story for a TV show once" thing. Congratulations, M'Sharak, for going into a spitting-frenzy anytime anyone talks back to one of your pals (and especially ST-One, who you leap seem to take an almost "overprotective mommy who'll defend her spoiled child from any consequences" attitude towards), even if they're the ones who're attacking the "backtalker" in the first place. Congratulations everyone.

This site is not a "fun place to discuss Star Trek." It's a private clubhouse for a bunch of nasty, vicious bastards to exercise some little power (even those who are prohibited by law from going within several blocks of anyplace where children can be found... and there are quite a few of those who've gravitated to this BBS, by the way, and are permitted to do anything they like by the "management"... ). It only POSES as a "fun place to discuss Star Trek." But I've seen too many people... including several MODERATORS... subjected to this same "you're not with us, so you're against us, and we'll destroy you" routine.

It's disgusting. It's not fun. It's not RIGHT. And it's not acceptable.

I strongly recommend that anyone who's experienced, or observed, this bullshit seriously consider walking away from this place. There are plenty of other sites on the 'net... sites which may be draconian about enforcing rules, or very loose about enforcing them, but which do have ONE SET OF RULES FOR EVERYONE, instead of "one to reward our friends and lovers" and "one to punish anyone who won't submit to our whims."

The TrekBBS is how it is because of the attitudes of those who run it, from the top down. I truly hope that Paramount starts to take a closer interest in this site... which, I suspect, is using the "Trek" concept in a for-profit manner, yet not paying for that privilege. A site that's "friendly and open to the community" may be considered a positive from the standpoint of PPC's legal department, but one that operates as this one does has the potential to harm the company's intellectual property... and I hope, very much, that they'll start to pay attention.

Assuming that my account isn't immediately deleted based upon my posting this, you can PM me, and I'll read those for a while. But I think I'm done being harassed and mistreated by a group which includes fascists and convicted sex offenders, and I don't plan to post anything further.

PTrope, if you find this post a problem, please feel free to do as I asked T'Bone to do, a number of days back, and simply delete the entire thread.
" 'Tis the season to be jolly, fa la la la la, la la la la "
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Old December 16 2009, 12:22 PM   #461
Psion
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Well, I'm sorry to see Cary go. I've enjoyed his thoughts about all things Trek even though we don't always agree.

Maybe I have a bit of a soft spot for grumpy engineering types, but I've seen a lot of what Cary complains about. It doesn't help that official policy is to sweep discussion under the rug with a constant "comments to PM" retort that does nothing to foster open discussion and shine light on problems with moderation. While I understand the idea is to keep threads on topic, there's no reason these things can't be discussed out in the open under Moderator Actions ... except, again, the mods want everything kept in PM.

Although Cary functions with a bit of a confirmation bias regarding unfair mods, he sure does seem to incur moderator wrath more easily than others for similar offenses. Maybe M'Sharek's just tired of dealing with a grumpy curmudgeon, but I wouldn't have warned Cary for calling a troll a troll. A firm, but civil, "Don't do that again" was all he deserved, even if it was obvious he'd do it again eventually anyway. Instead, we were left with a situation where the guy flamed was punished the same as the flamer. No wonder Cary got ticked off.

TheGodThing, Trevanian, CRA, and others have seen and received similar treatment. And while they're not always the most courteous posters, they often post with something interesting to say. Driving these people from the boards leaves the place to less thought-provoking posters who typically can't be bothered to rub enough neurons together to produce more than snarky remarks. You're throwing out good wood and keeping rot. (Although that isn't to say that there aren't thoughtful posters who are able to keep their comments diplomatic, but I'd rather have thoughtful posters, courteous or not, instead of the snarks.)

Comments to PM? Nah ... I don't think I can trust any system that keeps discussion in the dark.
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Last edited by Psion; December 16 2009 at 01:17 PM.
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Old December 16 2009, 12:38 PM   #462
Jolly Old Saint James
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Re: Ending this thread...

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
There will be no further postings by me on the TrekBBS for the foreseeable future... at least not until the current management leaves.

Recently, I was subjected to another round of harassment and mistreatment... in particular, this thread:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.ph...69#post3581969

which brought on this response:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...5&postcount=93

and then, as soon as my "suspension" for that expired, here:

http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.ph...78#post3651578

Where Dennis blatantly (and unprovokedly) attacked me. I asked for the mod to make some comment and was blown off. As is typically the case here, he was given a free pass when he violated the BBS rules. After giving the moderator TWO WEEKS (with several PMs between myself and that moderator, as well as the board Admin, during that time) to deal with the situation, it became clear that Dennis and his little group of fanboys are once again in the "special privileges" arena. SO... I responded to his unprovoked attack on me and, as expected, was given another "week-long ban."

During this time, I asked T'Bone to "prune" this thread... as I know that I've brought in a fair number of "hits" to the TrekBBS and I do not want to continue to contribute "hits" for advertising revenue to a place which is effectively run in this offensive and inappropriate fashion. As expected, she ignored my request entirely.

I've considered just deleting all the linked images from my Imageshack account... it's an inconvenience to me and I'd rather avoid that (I do plan on posting some of this elsewhere, on another site which is not run as a "fascist clubhouse"). I may still do so. However, I decided that for anyone really interested in this, I should let you know... because of the HORSE SHIT that the majority of the BBS staff regularly perpetrates (PTrope is one of the few who has never crossed that "one set of rules for our buddies, who get to do anything they like, and another set of "make 'em up as we go just to drive away people we don't like" rules for anyone who won't kiss their collective asses, by the way... he's not perfect but he's never crossed this particular line, and I respect him for it.)...

Well, because of this, well... I'm just tired of it, so I'll give the lying, rotten little bastards what they so clearly want. Congratulations, Dennie-boy. Keep riding on that "I wrote a story for a TV show once" thing. Congratulations, M'Sharak, for going into a spitting-frenzy anytime anyone talks back to one of your pals (and especially ST-One, who you leap seem to take an almost "overprotective mommy who'll defend her spoiled child from any consequences" attitude towards), even if they're the ones who're attacking the "backtalker" in the first place. Congratulations everyone.

This site is not a "fun place to discuss Star Trek." It's a private clubhouse for a bunch of nasty, vicious bastards to exercise some little power (even those who are prohibited by law from going within several blocks of anyplace where children can be found... and there are quite a few of those who've gravitated to this BBS, by the way, and are permitted to do anything they like by the "management"... ). It only POSES as a "fun place to discuss Star Trek." But I've seen too many people... including several MODERATORS... subjected to this same "you're not with us, so you're against us, and we'll destroy you" routine.

It's disgusting. It's not fun. It's not RIGHT. And it's not acceptable.

I strongly recommend that anyone who's experienced, or observed, this bullshit seriously consider walking away from this place. There are plenty of other sites on the 'net... sites which may be draconian about enforcing rules, or very loose about enforcing them, but which do have ONE SET OF RULES FOR EVERYONE, instead of "one to reward our friends and lovers" and "one to punish anyone who won't submit to our whims."

The TrekBBS is how it is because of the attitudes of those who run it, from the top down. I truly hope that Paramount starts to take a closer interest in this site... which, I suspect, is using the "Trek" concept in a for-profit manner, yet not paying for that privilege. A site that's "friendly and open to the community" may be considered a positive from the standpoint of PPC's legal department, but one that operates as this one does has the potential to harm the company's intellectual property... and I hope, very much, that they'll start to pay attention.

Assuming that my account isn't immediately deleted based upon my posting this, you can PM me, and I'll read those for a while. But I think I'm done being harassed and mistreated by a group which includes fascists and convicted sex offenders, and I don't plan to post anything further.

PTrope, if you find this post a problem, please feel free to do as I asked T'Bone to do, a number of days back, and simply delete the entire thread.
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Old December 16 2009, 01:17 PM   #463
Gep Malakai
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Re: Ending this thread...

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
But I think I'm done being harassed and mistreated by a group which includes fascists and convicted sex offenders...
I missed this part before, but...wait, what?
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Old December 16 2009, 01:22 PM   #464
ST-One
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Re: Ending this thread...

Elf Malakai wrote: View Post
Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
But I think I'm done being harassed and mistreated by a group which includes fascists and convicted sex offenders...
I missed this part before, but...wait, what?
The 'fascist(s)' could refer to TheGodThing, I don't know about any sex offenders here...
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Old December 16 2009, 01:27 PM   #465
Gep Malakai
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Re: Ending this thread...

Oh, he meant posters? For a moment there, I thought he was talking about the staff.
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