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Old October 29 2009, 10:48 PM   #436
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

DestinyCaptain wrote: View Post
I love the Achernar. It's a nice change of pace to the Ent-E knockoffs.
Thanks! That was sort of my point when I set out to make her. Basically, I decided that the "Ent-D" design style was specifically a "Utopia Planetia" style, and that the "Ent-E" design style was from some other shipyard... but that the San Francisco Naval Yards design style (which was predominant during the TOS/TMP era) is still the preferred style of ship design for that shipbuilding facility. It's a matter of style, and I really wanted to do a post-TNG-era ship that had the stylistic leanings of the TOS and TMP eras, while not sacrificing any of the functional updates.

Every feature on the Vega class was put there for a functional purpose... even though I also borrowed from some prior design styles (for instance, the secondary hull spine region is basically an outgrowth of my mental exercise to determine what the heck those seemingly nonsensical components on the Excelsior were!) I've been trying to apply the same logical approach to the TOS Enterprise, but it's a bit harder to work backwards than it is to work forwards, and I've had to just accept "magic" in a few cases on the 1701.
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Old October 29 2009, 11:05 PM   #437
DestinyCaptain
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Are there pop-down nacelles on the bottom of the saucer? Would this be for saucer-sep?
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Old October 30 2009, 01:03 AM   #438
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Of course, you realize you are a golden god.

Right?

--Alex
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Old October 30 2009, 01:05 AM   #439
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

awesome stuff in this thread
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Old October 30 2009, 01:06 AM   #440
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

DestinyCaptain wrote: View Post
Are there pop-down nacelles on the bottom of the saucer? Would this be for saucer-sep?
Yep, those are self-contained (ie, with integral power generation) nacelles. They allow the saucer to move at a reasonable warp velocity. Notice that both halves of the ship have everything needed to be a full starship. However, the ship is better able to do anything on the list when combined.

I have a reason for designing it that way... and not just the reason which is obvious (that you don't end up stranded in interstellar space without any chance of receiving assistance). The Achernar is one of the central elements of a story proposal I've developed, post-TNG-era, playing with some interesting themes seldom addressed in the Trekiverse (not a "fall of the Federation" concept in the conventional sense, rather a "corruption of the Federation" concept... albeit one driven by a force which sees itself as benign and working for everyone's best interests - sort of a "rise of fascism under a smilie face" concept).
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Old October 30 2009, 09:54 AM   #441
Mytran
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

If I may ask - what is that large rectangular section at the front of the saucer - specifically, the blue panel? It looks like it might be some sort of saucer deflector system, but much larger than normal!
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Old October 30 2009, 04:27 PM   #442
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Mytran wrote: View Post
If I may ask - what is that large rectangular section at the front of the saucer - specifically, the blue panel? It looks like it might be some sort of saucer deflector system, but much larger than normal!
That's a common misperception.. no, it's not a deflector.

This ship is a deep-space "beyond the frontier" explorer. Unlike a Galaxy-class ship, which is a "traveling starbase," this ship is more along the lines of a "Lewis and Clark Expedition." (In my story concept, she'll have been operating outside of the Federation for several years and has just returned to known space.)

The ship has several unique features that serve this "mapping the unknown" feature. It has a massive, deployable "passive towed sensor array" (think a fishing net that expands, through structural integrity field application, into a "spider's web" of passive sensor node many times larger than the ship itself... that's what's under the lower aft fantail hatch, not a shuttlebay, by the way). The "net" allows it to collect information in a totally stealthy fashion. On the other hand, it also has a massive active scanner... think of it as a synthetic aperature radar device as an analogy... in the nose.

The forward scanner is really an outgrowth of the scanner array on the underside of the TMP ship. (There are several additional smaller copies of this in a "disk" at the prow of the secondary hull's "neck" structure, visible in the underside view you can see above. But the device you mentioned is really just an upscaling of the device seen on the underside of the TMP hull, giving it better "eyes" than any equivalent deep space vessel in service at the time. However, this is also very, very visible to other observers. If they know you're there already, or if you don't mind them knowing... use the active scanners. If you're trying to avoid being observed, use the net.

Make sense?

There is a forward deflector (a yellow disk). You may also note a smaller aft-facing deflector, though, and wonder "why?" That's primarily there to help in the control of the towed array... typically providing a slight "drag force" on the net, where there would obviously be no such thing in space in reality. It also has a defensive mode... if the ship is being pursued and fired upon, the beam has a mode which is designed to track incoming projectiles and send a pulse of gravimetric energy which can fool the warhead into believing it has impacted... thus detonating weapons at a distance. The Vega class isn't really a combat vessel (some of what you may initially think are torpedo tubes are probe launchers - reconfigurable to fire torpedoes, but with the main role of probe launching and actually mounted inside of science facilities), or tractor beams, or even braking impulse exhausts - there are two dedicated fwd quantorp launchers and three photorp launchers (2 fwd, 1 aft)). While it serves a specific role in fleet engagements as a "strike cruiser" (fly in fast, release a lot of firepower, and fly away fast to recharge and rearm, while other ships do the toe-to-toe fighting), it's not really intended as a "combat ship of the line," and if it encounters hostiles, it's main line of defense is a very pythonesque "Run away, run away!"

Last edited by Cary L. Brown; October 30 2009 at 04:43 PM.
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Old October 30 2009, 05:02 PM   #443
Savage Dragon
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

I don't mean to take this thread too far off track, but do you have any renders with the Achernar seperated? It looks like it would look pretty cool (and functional).
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Old October 30 2009, 05:36 PM   #444
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

TheShrieker wrote: View Post
I don't mean to take this thread too far off track, but do you have any renders with the Achernar seperated? It looks like it would look pretty cool (and functional).
Nothing very recent... and I don't want to take this thread too far down that path (I've only posted here because the old thread on that has long since been "pruned" and only exists as a local copy on my hard drive!)

Here are a couple of very early renders showing the basics, however.

and

Oh, and besides the "regular" shuttles, this class of ship carries a single large-embarked craft which I do NOT call a "Captain's Yacht." On the Achernar, this is the cutter "Cerberus." The nacelle "wing/pylons" fold upwards for landing and for docking. The following three images show the Cerberus, sans wings, deploying. The fourth shows her with wings down.


Last edited by Cary L. Brown; October 30 2009 at 07:24 PM. Reason: put the thumbs side-by-side to save scrolling!
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Old October 30 2009, 07:59 PM   #445
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

I like it. I think I'd do something different with the nacelles, though, so they're not so obvious as Sovereign's turned on their sides. Something with the Bussards, probably.
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Old October 30 2009, 09:23 PM   #446
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Captain Robert April wrote: View Post
I like it. I think I'd do something different with the nacelles, though, so they're not so obvious as Sovereign's turned on their sides. Something with the Bussards, probably.
Well, I get your point... but it was a conscious decision to make these nacelles "little sibling" designs, related to the Sovereign's nacelles.

That said, I didn't use the Sovereign nacelles... not a single detail or measurement was taken from any pre-existing work. I "eyeballed" certain things to resemble the Sovereign nacelle, but made certain that nothing was identical. These are related to the Sovereign in the same way that the engines on the TAS freighter (and TOS_R "Antares") are related to the 1701's, really.

That said... the main quibble I had with the Sovereign's nacelles was the orientation, which has always bugged the daylights out of me. Almost every other nacelle design has always been symmetrical, top to bottom (granted, with a few elements which were offset... intercoolers, or attachment points, typically)... and even the TMP engines are MOSTLY symmetrical along that direction (except for the very front and very aft regions). But the Sovereign nacelles totally abandoned that... and that just never made sense to me.

So, what you see there is my "fix" for the sovereign engine... made top-to-bottom symmetrical, which means that the entire ship's warp drive system is then symmetrical as well. My use of three "fins" per nacelles is related to my perspective on the TOS engines... that these various devices are used to provide flow-path cooling that allows the ship to steer at warp. I placed my engines so that both of the red intakes have clear line-of-sight ahead, with the assumption that each is collecting gas from one of the four quadrants ahead of the ship (right-top, right-bottom, left-top, and left-bottom).

You'll also note that I have a "control reactor rib" (ala TMP) and an inboard grill (also ala TMP) which aren't really similar to what's on the Sovereign.

Most of all, my "special effects" will make them stand out. I haven't implemented those on the model you're seeing here, but I have created the appropriate "materials" and will assign those to the surfaces in question once I bring this into Maya (once all details are modeled, including any interior work I still need to finish!). I may still do some minimal tweaking to these effects, but my level of happiness with what I've got so far is pretty high overall. These are things that are MUCH different from what you've seen on the Sovereign, and should be pretty visible in most views. What you'll be seeing here is an early copy of the nacelle, but that's where I've stored and saved my materials until I finish the physical model. These are animated effects, by the way, and are parameter-driven (I intend for the parameter to be keyed to "engine power level" in some way... not really sure yet).





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Old October 31 2009, 03:29 PM   #447
Patrickivan
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

There's an element that I've always been fond of with regards to The OS Enterprise, and The NG Enterprise: the red stripes running down the top of the hull. Obviously not racing stripes, but some kind of sensor/ transmitter/ receiver platform, or something to that effect. The fact that they're red could be any reason really though for me, the materials are inherently that colour and there's no reason to change it.

I used to think it was a visual element indicating orientation, but that's what the navigation lights are for. I also thought maybe they're refueling, docking strips of some sort, but, I don't know....

What was my point? Oh yeah- The little red circles on your ship... What are they?
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Old October 31 2009, 06:50 PM   #448
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

Patrickivan wrote: View Post
There's an element that I've always been fond of with regards to The OS Enterprise, and The NG Enterprise: the red stripes running down the top of the hull. Obviously not racing stripes, but some kind of sensor/ transmitter/ receiver platform, or something to that effect. The fact that they're red could be any reason really though for me, the materials are inherently that colour and there's no reason to change it.

I used to think it was a visual element indicating orientation, but that's what the navigation lights are for. I also thought maybe they're refueling, docking strips of some sort, but, I don't know....

What was my point? Oh yeah- The little red circles on your ship... What are they?
Ah... those are hatch covers for the array of antimatter bottles. My assumption was that most starships can generate their own antimatter (~10% of the energy output of a m/am reaction can be used to "flip" that same amount of matter into antimatter), but that under most circumstances it's "easier" overall to get refueled if you've got a ready source of the stuff available. In this case you've got "hot-swappable" antimatter bottles. You can easily (and safely) eject individual bottles if one goes haywire, and can simply swap out expended bottles for fresh ones at a base facility. Heck, you could even treat this as the same general concept as the ST-09 "core ejector" sequence, since that's effectively what it would look like to eject these antimatter bottles (remember, I designed this loooong before ST-09, though).

As far as the radio system... I kink of like that, and that's one thing I've often thought of as well. I treat the linear strips on the top of the primary and secondary hulls as primary radio-frequency antenna elements, and the little red arcs on the bottom of the primary hull as well.

Now, for a long time I stewed over the silliness of the "inset ring" on the TMP B/C-deck superstructure, but (after the "wheelhouse" sequence in ST-V, by the way, which I assume is the "officer's club ballroom" at the front of B/C-deck) I eventually concluded that the inset dark grey ring on the TMP ship is the subspace antenna. I assume something smaller and less robust, but similar in function, is there for TOS... and (getting back to this thread's real topic!) for that reason, I've left a small ring inside the Deck-2 region, and have put the "communications department" facility at the front of Deck 2 on my version of the 1701.

Why make anything red? Oh, well, that's obvious. For the same reason that you don't want anyone to stand in front of a radar antenna when it's in operation (and why soldiers in the field will put their field rations in front of an antenna to heat up their food!) You want people to know not to get too close when it's powered up. By the time of TMP, they'd carried this concept even further, putting red-ringed amber "warning - stay clear" zones around RCS thrusters and phaser ports as well as providing a red "stay clear" stripe around the exterior of the subspace array, and so forth.

And on the Vega... the stripes around these round hatches are serving the same purpose... reminding people that something could pop out of these, propelled by little "escape thrusters" on the bottles, at any moment if something goes wrong, so they should stay clear. If you look closely, you can see that the vector that any of these bottles would follow when ejected would clear any other portion of the ship... the last thing you want is to eject a bottle and have it shoot right into one of the nacelles!

In the 1701, the antimatter bottle is a permanent part of the warp nacelle (at the aft end, aligned vertically). If this were to go haywire, your only option would be the one Kirk ordered Scotty to follow if necessary during "The Apple"... eject the antimatter pods and escape in the saucer section.
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Old November 1 2009, 12:27 AM   #449
therealfoxbat
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

ST-One wrote: View Post
Your modelling skills on both these ships are outstandingly good, but the Achernar's design is still atrociously ugly.
But the Big E looks superb. Can't wait to see a textured version of her
I disagree. It's not atrociously ugly. Most of it has real potential. The only thing that's making me raise one eyebrow is the extremely extended forward deflector...

"These are the voyages of the Starship Cyrano De Bergerac..."

I would really be interested in accounts of what happened aboard the class ship USS Vega. Unfortunately, what happens on the Vega stays on the Vega...
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Old November 1 2009, 01:59 AM   #450
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another take on the Original Enterprise...

therealfoxbat wrote: View Post
ST-One wrote: View Post
Your modelling skills on both these ships are outstandingly good, but the Achernar's design is still atrociously ugly.
But the Big E looks superb. Can't wait to see a textured version of her
I disagree. It's not atrociously ugly. Most of it has real potential. The only thing that's making me raise one eyebrow is the extremely extended forward deflector...

"These are the voyages of the Starship Cyrano De Bergerac..."

I would really be interested in accounts of what happened aboard the class ship USS Vega. Unfortunately, what happens on the Vega stays on the Vega...
Just one comment to this...

IT

IS

NOT

A

DEFLECTOR.

(sigh)

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